Ashlee

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Mel: Awesome. Okay. I'm here with Ashley Anslow, who is a privately practicing midwife and this week, Ash, we've, I've been talking to people all about becoming a privately practicing midwife, and we've been working our way through some online video stuff and, you know, people basically, they're exploring. I wanted to talk to you today because is.

[00:00:27] Mel: Not having any idea about how to start into private practice. And now we've known each other for about three or four years now in a professional sense. Um, your caseload is to the brim full overflowing. You say no to people like it's, I mean, it's extraordinary to think that you've been able to virtually from the minute that you opened your private practice.

[00:00:56] Mel: Um, so I want to talk to you about that because, uh, people, I think midwives don't really understand that they can successfully step into private practice, uh, but you've done it. And so can you give me a little bit of, I guess, talk to me about your circumstance, you know, your family, where you're at, wait, let's go back.

[00:01:18] Mel: Let's go back. Okay. Let's talk about how we met.

[00:01:25] Mel: Yes, tell me about that time in your life about when we met. Okay.

[00:01:30] Ashlee: Um, I met Mel, um, initially, I think it was through social media connections. So, well, I'll start first with, I started off my midwifery career in a tertiary hospital in Sydney. Um, I spent most of my career working in a midwifery group practice.

[00:01:48] Ashlee: I worked with some, um, quite senior midwives who are extremely experienced, um, Who have also worked in like home birth and birth center work and stuff in the past. So I got trained very much in what we would consider to be in the hospital system, the, as much of the full scope as the, what you could possibly practice.

[00:02:12] Ashlee: I worked with a amazing, um, supportive obstetrician. And for me, that was. The normal that like, what's the big deal? This is actually not that bad. Um, you know, I'd probably do things a little bit differently now with what I know now compared to then, but I like, yeah, I had really good mentors and stuff around me in the early parts of my career.

[00:02:35] Ashlee: So, um, I reached out to Mel. A few years after we moved and relocated. 'cause not many people can afford to live in some of those parts of Sydney, um, once they start having children. So, um, I've got three children who are now all school age. My youngest started school this year, but um, at the time they were quite, um, small and I was just, Completely demoralized by what was being expected of me in my hospital.

[00:03:12] Ashlee: Um, I worked both in maternity and emergency and, um, this was starting, I, like, I was already in that space before Covid sort of hit. And then at the very beginning of Covid it was just like, Yeah, I'm, I'm done. So when I first reached out to Mel, I was actually researching horticulture courses because, um, when you give up on maternity, you go and just want to do like plants and stuff forever and vegetable gardening.

[00:03:43] Ashlee: Um, and Mel just was basically like, like, that's nice. We both have a joy of doing gardening things, but. You don't want to do that. You want to come and second for some home births with me. And Yeah, I mean, we've both laughed a lot about this a little bit ever since, um, but basically the first home birth that I did with Mel took me back to one of the most beautiful births that I attended when I was actually a student midwife and reminded me.

[00:04:21] Ashlee: why I actually do love being a midwife and I don't want to give this up as my career. Um, and fortunately for me, I was already at the point where I had enough hours to get my, um, endorsement. So it was just a matter of me meeting the prescribing, um, course requirements. And yeah, that's.

[00:04:46] Mel: So we met, you were at your wits end, you were ready to 100 percent quit midwifery, even though you'd, you'd done enough hours, like you'd been in it long enough to be, and you'd worked in all different models.

[00:05:01] Mel: And then when confronted with just the absolute challenges of being a hospital based midwife and, you know, moving from that beautiful Sydney hospital, you know, away into a more rural hospital and just. it absolutely destroying your will to return to work.

[00:05:19] Ashlee: I felt like a pawn of the system and it was very much either get in trouble or be compliant.

[00:05:27] Ashlee: Um, and I didn't really conform particularly well. I don't know.

[00:05:33] Mel: Yeah, we should, I mean, us private midwives, you know, we're out in private practice because we have a tendency not to conform.

[00:05:42] Ashlee: Maybe I was just always destined for it.

[00:05:46] Mel: And yeah, and I remember that day actually, because my workload was also increasing, uh, with a lot of, with a lot of changes that I was having were happening in my business.

[00:05:57] Mel: And I'd been having discussions with my husband about, man, I'm not sure. Business is upscaling. How am I going to? Um, sustain this workload. I need more midwifery support and it was almost that same week you rang me like, Ashley, I need to talk to you about like, what to do next. I just want to give up midwifery and, um.

[00:06:24] Mel: Yes, and I remember saying to you, look, why don't you come out to a few births with me? Explore this possibility of private practice midwifery, like, I'm looking for some extra support anyway. You've got heaps of experience. You don't want to work in the hospital. What have you got to lose? And... Oh my gosh, I remember your face when a baby came out at home, just in the water.

[00:06:45] Mel: I, we barely touched the baby. We barely did a thing.

[00:06:48] Ashlee: I think, and it was like the third stage, like just being like the baby's out. All right, let's make some tea. And it was just like, Oh yeah, that's right.

[00:07:01] Mel: Yes. And right. And you looked at me and I was like, you're never going to be able to go back into the hospital again after seeing this because you actually do become forever changed seeing.

[00:07:13] Mel: That how far the opportunity to look after women in the way that they want to be looked after is from what we're expected to do in hospital. So I'm glad that I ruined you for life in that moment, because we've been working together ever since and. I've been able to watch your business just like, boom.

[00:07:35] Mel: Um, so what happened for you next? So, yeah, okay, we've been out to a few home births, been completely physically, like, like, ruined for ever going back to the hospital again. Was it an easy decision to move into private practice after that? Or were there things that you, like, some doubts that you had? That kind of a holding you back from maybe taking the full leap and just leaving like,

[00:07:59] Ashlee: um, it felt like the easy decision in that it felt like it was the only avenue that I really had to take at that point.

[00:08:08] Ashlee: But it was also difficult because, you know, when you work for New South Wales Health, you get paid put into your account every fortnight, you get annual leave, you. Don't have to think about any of that stuff. And I have not like come from a business background. I like, and that has been a steep learning curve for me.

[00:08:28] Ashlee: Um, yeah, like I, I had no idea what I was doing in that sense. So I basically I enrolled in the, um, uh, the prescribing course, um, and. Basically spent a period of time transitioning my hours. So I went from being. Um, permanent part time to eventually dropping to the casual pool. And then, Oh, I'm never going to forget the email that I got.

[00:08:55] Ashlee: That was like, just a reminder that, you know, you're not entitled to any sort of shifts or anything like that. And it was just, I got paid out my long service leave, which I used a significant amount of that to like, um, help get myself sort of started and like. Um, that you kind of need in the early sort of stages, but that was like letting go of the safety net around.

[00:09:18] Ashlee: And I think that's probably the biggest challenge. Um, so I'm never going to forget when I got to the point where I had just a really terrible. Day, um, in the hospital. This was right at the point I, I think it was like the same week as my endorsement actually came through. And I still remember walking out and being like done.

[00:09:42] Ashlee: But then also I think I'd just been paid, like I just paid myself for the first time through my business. Like, so I was actually able to like pay bills from my own business and I just went, you guys don't own me. Um, I don't, I don't have to be here to pay my bills. I'll come and do shifts for you because I love these people and I care about these people.

[00:10:08] Ashlee: And, you know, our colleagues are often what keep us going when we're stuck in that, but I don't need you to pay my bills anymore. That was massive.

[00:10:20] Mel: And that is mad. That is huge. I mean, we're midwives. It's our job. Obviously, we need to go to work to get money because food costs the, you know, it costs to eat, it costs to live, you know, we have to work, but we don't have to be a slave.

[00:10:36] Mel: To our job and thrash ourselves and hurt ourselves emotionally and physically in order to be paid as midwives. Like there's other ways of being paid as a midwife and one of those ways is to be in private practice. Um, and you mentioned an important thing that, you know, you really had to, the money, the payout that you got went into starting your business.

[00:11:00] Mel: Because there are, I mean, it's the reality, any business you start is going to have some early costs that you have to recoup and make a profit on. Um, and so,

[00:11:11] Ashlee: Which are relatively small in private practice, really, when you consider what other businesses need. We are, and like I have bought other things since that are completely non necessary.

[00:11:23] Ashlee: As you can probably attest to.

[00:11:26] Mel: But a hundred, like a, like a very clever investment of that final payout meant that you paved the way for your private practice journey. Cause you're right, it's. Relative to, you know, if you're starting up a cafe or something and you need to put 150, 000 into a refurb, you know, staff and all these things, you didn't see that money back for years in private practice, you know, it could be months for you to actually recoup what you've put into your business.

[00:11:55] Mel: So I think that's a really great point to make is that for a relatively small investment. You've got a lot of return and profit within the whole first year of your business, which is really unusual. Um, what helped you, so your husband works though, right, full time. Yes. And you've got small children, so this is the other barrier.

[00:12:21] Mel: Hmm. Is that us as women are often left with all, you know, with a lot of the share of the childcare. Uh, how did you navigate changing your role with also still nurturing your family? How, like, what strategies did you put in place to make sure that the transition didn't impact them

[00:12:43] Ashlee: too much? I actually think the transition to private practice has been good for my family.

[00:12:49] Ashlee: Um, yes, there are periods of time that I am away from home for a decent chunk of time, but I am actually more present in my family's life. in like the mornings and in the evenings and going to bedtime and doing the after school activities and weekends than what I actually was even in part time shift work in the hospital.

[00:13:15] Ashlee: There is a network around me and I think anytime you speak to anyone, whether it's MGP or private practice, um, Yes, there is a network around me that keeps me functional and I am very grateful to all of those who play that role. Um, I don't think I could have done it when my children were younger than what they were.

[00:13:36] Ashlee: Or like I would have needed to have other sort of support sort of things in place. Um, but so my kids, two out of three of my children were in preschool still. When I went into private practice, um, it started off as three days a week and then it ended up transitioning to the year before they went to school to five, um, four days a week.

[00:13:57] Ashlee: And I'm lucky in that I have, um, my mother. Committed to giving me one day a week of childcare and that was quite, um, reliable. So it always was a little bit of a juggle. There is, you know, you always have your day of the week. That is my preference for people not to go into labor, which is your favorite day of the week, I think.

[00:14:22] Ashlee: So, you know, however it works, but, um. You know, I have a baby, my husband actually spends one night a week in Sydney for his job, and so I actually have a babysitter that comes and stays overnight. Every week in case I get called out and so you've got like those sorts of things in place and you know, over time, things like the school, the, um, before and after school care, they all know what I do for work and you know, on the very odd occasion that, you know, you need to drop off early or pick up late or something like that, they've all been very flexible.

[00:14:55] Mel: And I think though, you know, the juggle that happens with shift work where somebody just issues you with your shifts and then you're expected to make that work. Yeah. Often at really weird times, like you'll either miss school drop off or school pickup if you're doing morning

[00:15:10] Ashlee: or afternoon. Yeah, it's actually worse that, you know, 7am till 3.

[00:15:14] Ashlee: 30pm or the, you know, 1. 30pm till 10pm. Like, I am doing the vast majority of my hours in school hours. I am doing the vast majority of my kids after school activities. I am doing the vast majority of their drop offs and pick ups. Um... And then I just have to insert husband into the system. So the, like the way we do it is I do do the vast majority of it, you know, and that kind of helps with that knowing that it's completely unpredictable when, you know, he might have to step in, um, and take over.

[00:15:50] Ashlee: And I do try to organize activities, um, a little bit around his schedule so that if I am not available, it doesn't impact on his, um, balance too much, but yeah. And we can

[00:16:02] Mel: choose things, right? Like. You don't

[00:16:05] Ashlee: have to work full time either. Like, I thought I wasn't going to work full time. And... It has turned out to be that

[00:16:14] Mel: because everybody loves Ashley.

[00:16:18] Mel: The other thing we don't have to do is work weekends if you don't want to. And you know, yes, a lot of women go into labor at nighttime, but you know, it always works out that you get to still usually tuck your kids into bed. We go out in the night, um, and, you know, Still, no one's noticed you're missing till the early morning hours, often.

[00:16:43] Ashlee: Most of the time, if I miss something, it's the morning, not the evening. Like I'm there for dinner and, you know, we're getting the messages. We're sending each other messages. Like, Oh, I've got a message from this woman. It's like, you know, and especially if it's not their first baby, they're not going to go into labor until after they've put their kids to bed either.

[00:16:59] Ashlee: So we're all doing the same thing. And

[00:17:02] Mel: well, and we've, and you know, if you've got a support network or firstly people to help. With things at home, but then also a network of midwives who you can tap into. So, you know, there's been times where, you know, little special things like, Hey, it's my daughter's dance concert happens once a year.

[00:17:20] Mel: She's terribly excited. They'd be practicing all year. I'm going to be there from two till four. And I know that I can throw to Ashley. Um, right. He will go first to a client and, and you don't have to miss. Super important things in your life. So it's, it really offers so much flexibility because like you said, you're doing your appointments when the kids are at school, you don't plan them before nine 30 or whatever, because you know that what your lifestyle is like.

[00:17:53] Ashlee: And I only do like day one and day two postnatal visits on the weekend, if they're like past that postnatal, they don't, they don't need to happen on the weekend.

[00:18:02] Mel: Yeah. Yeah. And so I found the same, even with a full time load, you end up spending more time with your family. In private practice than when you're on shift work.

[00:18:15] Mel: Uh, and so I can be, the other thing that people really struggle with is this idea of how much money they might make. And, you know, like you said, you don't actually have to work full time. And I think, and the subtext of that is you don't have to work full time in order to make a full wage when you're in private practice

[00:18:32] Ashlee: compared to the rate that you get paid in the hospital.

[00:18:35] Ashlee: Absolutely.

[00:18:35] Mel: A hundred percent. And so. Even though people like I couldn't be in private practice because of the on call thing. You can actually make as much money as you're possibly making now in a hospital doing half the hours. And I remember speaking to you, so you also, so I have a mentorship. That, that happens every year and we were, we'd already started working together before you, you joined the mentorship on the very first year that it started.

[00:19:05] Mel: Uh, but I remember you, you were like halfway through the mentorship and you sent me a text message and I'm pretty sure all it said was I'm fully booked for the rest of the year and I haven't even finished. The mentorship yet, and you're like, what do I need to know, um, in order to kind of catch, like, keep up with the speed of business.

[00:19:30] Mel: So, can you talk to me about that financial transition, you know, you've got three small children, you've a house mortgage, a lot of stuff to do, you know, a farm, all these things, knowing that you were going to be potentially down in income. What, tell me about that financial transition, like what surprised you, what scared you, what, what happened?

[00:19:54] Ashlee: Well, the scary part is the unknown, the inability to control it. Um, but, um, when I worked for New South Wales Health and my husband actually got his second redundancy, I think I was already in private practice at that point. Um, but his pay for his old job was actually considerably worse than what his current one is.

[00:20:16] Ashlee: So neither of us were on like particularly good incomes. Like I was qualifying for Medicare, dental and all that sort of stuff. Um, I can't actually fathom being on that income anymore with. Like what's happened over particularly like the last 12 months with the increase in interest rate rises with what food costs and everything like that now, like if I was still on that, um, income South Wales health, we would be really not in great shape.

[00:20:47] Ashlee: So I think it was, um, I had only been in private practice for six months. Cause I think it was, yeah, it was early in the late, late January, the year after I went into private practice, we went on a family holiday for the first time. Um, so like even I, I just took a really quite a small space of time cause I hadn't been established for very long, but up to that point, we could not have afforded to go on a family holiday.

[00:21:16] Ashlee: And that was something that only happened because I actually did go into private practice. So that's cool. Um, learning how to pay yourself super and. I mean, that's all just a bit of a journey that you have to kind of go on. Like, um, one year I got paid. Um, because I took heaps of people on in August and that was going to be like my annual leave pay for the next year.

[00:21:43] Ashlee: And I put the money aside, but because of where it was sitting in my account, like at the end of financial year, I got like taxed on it. And like my whole annual leave, like disappeared because. And then I was like, Oh, but that's not like profit. That's, that's my pay. Like they don't care. So, you know, there's all those kinds of mistakes that you make in the early days, but I'm getting there.

[00:22:06] Ashlee: I'm getting into a routine now. I'm know what to sort of expect. You know, I am paying myself super. Um, and. Doing all of those things. I'm paying myself an income. Um, I bought a car in my business name, which is a really good thing to do when you do a lot of kilometers driving. So yeah, I don't live in Sydney now.

[00:22:29] Ashlee: I live in the top part of the blue mountains. So, um, I take people up to an hour and a half away from home. And when you're doing postnatal visits day one, two, four, seven, that's a few trips back and forward. So I do have quite a lot of kilometers. On my car, but that's okay because that's my business owns that car.

[00:22:47] Ashlee: And you kind of feel a little bit different about it when it's not, Oh, like, look at all the kilometers I'm putting on my car sort of thing.

[00:22:54] Mel: It's meant to be that way. We've all made those little tax mistakes. Like I did it years and years and years into business just going, Oh man. And you know, as business grows, you lose track of how much now you're going to owe in tax.

[00:23:06] Mel: And unless you, you know, all these little nitty gritty things that happen financially, And, you know, but you can really quite easily, or in your case accidentally make double sometimes triple what you would make in a hospital. Uh,

[00:23:25] Ashlee: I said I'm on double what I was on in the hospital.

[00:23:27] Mel: Yeah. In a job that is way more fulfilling and that's not, you don't wanna actually leave.

[00:23:32] Mel: Right. , yes. , you know,

[00:23:35] Ashlee: um, the satisfaction that I have. Um, and a lot of the satisfaction, it doesn't actually even just come from the home births. A lot of the satisfaction actually comes from the transfers. Um, because That's often where we step in and really change people's experiences of complicated medical things when they happen.

[00:24:03] Ashlee: Um, I, like, I'm quite lucky that I have got admitting rights at one of the hospitals in Sydney, so I do a little bit of stuff there and, um, Yeah, as much as I don't ever want to go back to the hospital system, I'm happy taking on some of my clients that do want to actually, um, birth there and I feel quite well supported there, um, and have an amazing collaborative agreement with an obstetrician that just, it's good.

[00:24:30] Ashlee: It's really good. And, you know, that sort of thing helps, but like, knowing that you've made a difference in those people's journeys, um, being able to look back on your caseload for a year. And be like, every single thing that has happened, no matter how complicated it has gotten, those women got to experience the best version of their birth journey possible.

[00:24:53] Mel: Yeah, totally. I have to agree with you there when, you know, it's not always about the events that occur, but the fact that people have been treated. Beautifully in a time of real uncertainty makes a massive difference. Um, can you share with the people? So the people who are watching, you're probably thinking about going into private practice.

[00:25:12] Mel: They're not really sure that he does to kind of learn what's the number one thing that if you didn't have, when you entered into private practice, that would have led to this thing, just not working. Like if you didn't have it, what, I mean,

[00:25:36] Mel: Yeah, but

[00:25:37] Ashlee: like you guided me through, like, from the first step of, okay, apply for this course. Okay. Get your ADN. Okay. Now you've got your business set up. Here's your things that, what do you need to do in your equipment? Um, Yeah. It's not the midwifery stuff so much, although yes, we all do need to figure out where our comfort levels with our scope sits, but it's, where do I get birth registration papers from?

[00:26:02] Ashlee: Where do I get blue books from? Like all of that. And that's why you do need to, I think. You need to have a mentor going into private practice. It would take you years and years and years to successfully transition, and you probably wouldn't do it very well, um, if you didn't have. A mentor

[00:26:24] Mel: going into it, although you're saying you needed me, what I offered you was just a resource, basically, to tell you what to do next in terms of, yep.

[00:26:34] Mel: So, I mean, I have to agree with you. That's how my journey started as well with, with a midwife who was just willing to take my calls and, you know, show me the ropes and where to get things and who to call when this happens and what forms to fill in when you need to do this. It's all those tiny little stress points that.

[00:26:52] Mel: You know, you don't realize you're in until it's happening and you're like, Oh, wait, how do I even register a birth? And how do I organize Medicare and just all the stuff?

[00:27:02] Ashlee: We got real experience at that very, very quickly.

[00:27:06] Mel: Right. But you know, there's a process. There's, you know, there's midwives who have gone before you that go, Oh yeah, here's how I get ETD and you get great.

[00:27:13] Mel: Now someone's already done the legwork on what to do with that and you can just tap into it and make way fewer mistakes than I probably made. Yeah.

[00:27:23] Ashlee: And the person coming after me will make even less mistakes because the reality is all we need is for. the government to actually like cover pretty much all our fees, which they should do because we are saving them a ridiculous amount of money.

[00:27:38] Ashlee: And if they got rid of that, we do not have enough midwives to take on the number of women who would want to be cared for by us.

[00:27:47] Mel: Because that's what you've found, isn't it? And I mentioned in one of these videos this week that I could probably fill my caseload three or four times over. Is that, has that been your experience as well, even from the beginning, having to say no to people just because you're full?

[00:28:04] Ashlee: Yeah, especially, I mean, for me, I stepped out in, like, kind of the middle of COVID. So that was probably, you know, good timing in that regard. Um, but it, it was a little bit like being pushed off a cliff, like sink or swim or here off you go. Like, um, and you know, learning to have boundaries as well, because I can't say yes to everyone and I can't save everyone's birth, even if I'm not very good at it.

[00:28:34] Mel: Doing boundaries. That's something that I'm still coaching you through to this day. When you ring me and go, hey Mel. No, Ashley, you are not. That is enough. Um, so for the people watching now who are on the cusp and thinking, gosh, it's a big leap. I mean, do you have any. Last words for them at this point, having, you've done it, like you did endorsement, you did pharmacology, you've started a business, you've got small children, your husband works, you don't live in the city, you've been highly successful in private practice, uh, with some, you know, with mentorship and with guidance, but you've like met every single challenge and you, you know, you've even and Now you're pushing me forwards because, you know, I'm still stuck in the, um, paper notes era because I like paper notes.

[00:29:29] Mel: Oh, yes. We need to get you out of that. You know, Ashley's really, she's like, right. I found this software. We're going to use it. I'm like, I don't want to. Like what I feel like has happened is that you've nailed the basics of business. And now you're in a position to actually start excelling. And exploring new areas, which is extraordinary when you think about people starting business, they sometimes just struggle with the basics to lay those down.

[00:29:58] Mel: And you don't have room to innovate and improve your systems. Within a very short period of time, you've managed to not only set up. But then start to innovate how you're working in your business with the electronic notes. You've, you know, you've navigated that whole path of visiting rights, which is something I'm not going to touch with a 10 foot pole.

[00:30:19] Mel: Totally fine. But that's all stuff that you've done on your own without my guidance. And so I think that just speaks to how committed you've been to the process of business as well, and being really thoughtful. Um, you know, it's this craftsman. Mindset of going, right, I've, I've nailed the basics, we're set up now, how can we keep excelling and do better and do better and improving every single step?

[00:30:45] Mel: So, I mean, I just want to commend you on that, but I think what this also shows people is how possible it is in this really short period of time. Like you just started your career and looked at your finances and went, mate, I can take you guys all on a holiday. With justice business decision that I made.

[00:31:02] Mel: So, um, yeah, I guess I want to drive that home to people too.

[00:31:07] Ashlee: Yeah, I think part of it is just do it, but part of it is also giving yourself permission a little bit as well. Yeah, once I sort of stepped down in, out into it, it all just sort of made sense. Like part of me was like, why did I do this sooner? I don't think I probably could have handled it.

[00:31:27] Ashlee: My younger two children is just so everyone I know are twins. Um, and I don't think I could much less have made it like coordinated meal much earlier than like, you know, looked after someone else. Um, when I was Um, very much in the trenches of that.

[00:31:45] Mel: Yeah. There's an amazing freedom in private practice where we get to operate in our scope, in our full scope, but then also, um, you know, using research and everything to actually guide our practice instead of having to rigidly stick to a set of policies, whether they be right or wrong, you know, it.

[00:32:06] Mel: Yeah. Amazing. Is there anything more you want to share today, Ashley, as people are sort of considering journeying into private practice?

[00:32:15] Ashlee: Just ask questions. I think, you know, that's if it doesn't feel right. And if you feel like what you're doing as a midwife in the system doesn't sit right with you, trust your gut and ask those questions because you don't know where it could land you.

[00:32:38] Ashlee: Put you in a really good place. It could put

[00:32:40] Mel: you in a really good place. I mean, and you can't get into a worse place. I mean, if you, if you're already like going, man, I can't keep working here much longer, what am I going to do with my career in my early thirties? And I'm already considering leaving a profession that I'm like, been fully trained for, we went to uni for this stuff.

[00:33:01] Mel: Like this could be your entire life's career. So I think you're right. Like it, it could work out so much better. And if you don't leave, I mean, it's only going to be as good as it currently is. You

[00:33:14] Ashlee: know, you can stay on the casual pool and keep doing shifts. The only reason I got dropped off the casual pool, I think it said that we, what did it, what did it say?

[00:33:23] Ashlee: I think I, it was like I got divorced or something. Um, and it was simply because I didn't do enough shifts because every time they rang me, I was like, no, sorry, I'm too busy. I'm like, either I was working or it was like, I've only got like. You know, I wasn't going to do hospital shifts on the weekend for the fun of it.

[00:33:41] Ashlee: Um, and so it just turned into like, no, I'm not ever available. So they just literally canned me off the list because there was no point in ringing me.

[00:33:48] Mel: Well, I love what you said is that like, like you need me, but I don't need you, you, you basically, I don't need to be a slave to you anymore because you had your own thing.

[00:34:01] Mel: You didn't need them for income or anything. Uh, so, I mean, I just think it's such a success story and it just is a testament to, you know, being teachable and taking the opportunity. You know, not letting the fear of, you know, will we have enough money? What am I going to do with my kids? How's this all going to work?

[00:34:20] Mel: Like you just left and, um, trusted the process. And so, yeah, I just think it's a great example of what can be done in a short period of time, if you really want to do it. So amazing. Thanks, Ash.

[00:34:35] Ashlee: I remember one of the first births that I attended with you, and I think the baby was born. And I think I went to start doing some like really vigorous stimulation.

[00:34:43] Ashlee: And you were like,

[00:34:47] Ashlee: kind of made me be like, we don't need to do that.

[00:34:53] Mel: And I do remember, I mean, it was quite a while into our career before I watched you fully settle for placental births.

[00:35:00] Ashlee: Yes, it did take a while, I think the first time we waited three hours and I think I successfully sat in another room and put my feet up and you just came and let me know that we were still waiting and I was like, I think that's when I knew that I transitioned.

[00:35:17] Mel: Well, and it's as much, you know, you were really experienced, highly skilled midwife. And so I think it's as much on learning. As it, as it is, you know, we're learning business, but we're unlearning the old way of midwifery that we've been taught in the hospital. So it's a really exciting journey because you get to be a better midwife 100 percent and learn new and different skills in a supported way, because we're always going out to home birth with two midwives.

[00:35:44] Mel: And so. You know, and if you're only just entering into private practice, you're always going to be the more junior midwife. So you now have an opportunity to learn from your peers what it is to be with physiological birth. It's a, it's skills that you would never see in a hospital setting, even if it was a hospital, hospital home birth program or a birth center or anything like that.

[00:36:07] Mel: Nowhere allows. The amount of space, even, for example, for placental birth that is offered in a home setting, uh, so I think that was the other thing that I really observed with you was not only just kind of really working at all the business stuff, but I watched your neural pathways completely rewire themselves in so many other areas, uh, You know, and that's no fault of your own.

[00:36:34] Mel: It's just like, that's what we learned in the hospital. Um, you know, even with

[00:36:39] Ashlee: the training that I had had, which was probably far more physiological birth than what most hospital midwives get exposed to. And we did have like, like water births and, you know, physiological third stages and everything, but it was still like in my mind, like, Oh my goodness, the placenta still needs to be out by one hour.

[00:36:57] Ashlee: Otherwise I'm going to have to really what dictate was that was. I need to go tell someone that this hasn't happened and that means this and so you're trying to avoid that by, by, by avoiding that you're actually creating the

[00:37:12] Mel: problem. Yeah. Oh, it's magic. Thanks so much Ash for sharing your journey. Uh, and.

[00:37:20] Mel: Yeah, keep watching guys, because this week we're talking all about private practice midwifery. And if you have any questions about Ashley's story or anything that you want to ask, send me an email. We can keep chatting through this. And yeah, we'll just see you through the rest of the week.