RECORDED SESSION

Social Media Training with Mel

Ai Generated Text

This may contain errors

AI Generated Chapter Marks

AI Generated Summary

The Medicalisation Playbook: Dr Melanie Jackson defined the current negative narrative against midwifery as a classic, historical tactic of medicalisation. Citing AI feedback, she explained that strategies used to sabotage the profession often involve weaponising public relations, shifting the narrative about safety to pierce public trust, framing natural physiology as inherently dangerous, and amplifying rare failures while dismissing successes as lucky.
Social Media Consumption Patterns: Mel noted that social media users typically scroll quickly, spending only three to six seconds on a post, meaning they rarely engage with long-form, deep content. She warned that continuously sharing negative headlines or problems can inadvertently mainstream disparaging language against midwives because the audience perceives a tally of issues without necessarily understanding the broader context.
Shifting Social Media Strategy: Mel advised against directly sharing negative news stories, as doing so drives engagement and signals to media outlets that the content is viral and worthy of repeating. Instead, she encouraged participants to deflect from the negative source material and intentionally curate their own dialogue, such as sharing the World Health Organisation and International Confederation of Midwives goal of adding 1 million more midwives to improve global maternity care.
The United Kingdom Context and Midwife Silence: Dr Sheena Byrom observed that the narrative against midwives in the UK has strengthened over the past 12 years, often causing midwives to feel silenced and afraid to discuss physiological birth. However, she shared that recent instances of "outrage" and publicly challenging defamatory claims—such as those made by a Member of Parliament—have been effective in getting false content removed and halting some disparaging pushes.
Tactically Editing Content: Mel suggested a counter-strategy: screenshotting negative news articles, editing them to cross out disparaging language (such as replacing "danger" with "safety"), and sharing the altered image without tagging the original outlet. This allows creators to highlight the misinformation while presenting evidence-based solutions in a single, complete post that does not reward the outlet’s algorithm with views.
Data-Driven Advocacy: Mel emphasised that research supports midwifery as a safe option, noting that the International Confederation of Midwives has documented a 65% reduction in maternal and newborn deaths if midwife care is prioritised. She suggested using specific statistics—such as reframing a "1,000 deaths" statistic by providing the context of 11 million births (less than 0.04%)—to provide necessary perspective and counter misleading headlines.
Addressing Political and Policy Targets: Anna Melamed raised the concern of how to influence policymakers, such as the upcoming selection of a maternity advisor, given that families with tragic outcomes often have the ear of these officials. Mel agreed that while social media is a start, it cannot be the only strategy; they encouraged participants to get involved in "boring" but effective political actions, such as sending letters, organising meetings, and collaborating with consumer organisations to achieve structural change.
Personal Stories and Professional Boundaries: Caroline Norledge, a midwife who experienced baby loss, sought advice on how to effectively use their personal experience while advocating for midwifery. Mel encouraged them to share their story succinctly to connect with people, while ensuring they also present high-quality, evidence-based documents—such as Cochrane reviews or Lancet studies—to build a case for midwifery as the safest maternity care option.
Addressing Systemic Failures vs. Midwifery: Mel suggested that when reports identify systemic issues like toxic leadership, bullying, or racism, midwives should use these reports to their advantage. Instead of allowing media to frame the issue as midwives being dangerous, they advised sharing specific findings from reports to deflect the focus onto systematic failures rather than blaming individual practitioners.
Boundaries and Managing Negative Comments: Mel and Sheena discussed the difficulty of receiving traumatic comments from people who have been harmed. Mel advised that debating these individuals online is futile and suggested acknowledging their hurt and offering sympathy while also maintaining strict boundaries: hide, delete, or block accounts that resort to personal attacks, as those users are not the target audience and engaging can be detrimental.
Maintaining Professional Integrity: Mel stressed that in professional social media spaces, it is essential to post only content that is true, factual, and backed by research. By ensuring that every claim can be defended with documentation or evidence, midwives can protect themselves from potential employer or accreditation body repercussions and maintain their professional reputation.
Setting Personal Boundaries and Communication: Mel emphasised the importance of maintaining self-respect and establishing clear boundaries with others to protect one's well-being; she also stated she would provide the group with an essay she authored regarding authoritative knowledge in birth narratives.
Marketing Strategy for Midwifery: The core strategy for changing the public narrative is to focus on marketing the reality of midwifery using research and facts, rather than demonising the current system or solely highlighting problems, to ensure that the content being shared remains value-driven.
Leveraging AI for Advocacy: Participants were encouraged to flood the internet with positive stories about midwifery to influence artificial intelligence algorithms, thereby teaching the technology to associate the profession with its demonstrated benefits; speakers also advised that individuals should only discuss topics within their specific area of expertise to maintain confidence and clarity.
The Impact of Online Criticism: Sheena shared personal experiences regarding intense online criticism, or "pylons," that they and their colleagues received for not taking specific political stances, noting that such experiences are highly distressing, sap one's energy, and can damage mental health.
Handling "Haters" and Negative Feedback: Citing psychological research on how negative information has a more powerful impact than positive, Mel shared mentor Prof Hannah Dahlen's advice that receiving hate is a sign that one's work is influential and making an impact; the recommended method for protecting one's mental space is to promptly block and delete haters rather than engaging with them.
Boundary Setting Against Political Extraction: Both Sheena and Mel discussed the expectation from followers that they must voice opinions on global political issues; they agreed that such demands are an overreach, as their digital platforms are specifically for midwifery and woman-centred care, and they have no obligation to address unrelated humanitarian or political matters.
Managing False Accusations: Mel described a situation where she was falsely accused of racism in a blog post and chose not to respond or defend herself, which successfully allowed the issue to disappear without fuelling further conflict, reinforcing the value of not validating inflammatory claims.
Avoiding Conflict Engagement: Mel advised against responding to comments that appear intended to provoke, as every response acts as "kindling" for a fire; they recommended that individuals learn to recognise when a comment might cause them to spiral emotionally and to use the block function immediately.
Sharing Positive Content: Mel agreed to provide a transcript or AI-generated summary of the session and encouraged participants to boost the impact of their platforms by sharing each other's positive content and engaging positively in comments, which helps change the social media algorithm.
Responding to Critics for Passive Readers: Anna questioned whether it is worthwhile to respond calmly to bad-faith actors to educate passive "lurkers"; Mel advised against debating in the comment section and suggested that if one has important information to share, they should write a separate, new post instead.
Social Media Formatting: Regarding the design of social media content, Mel noted that posts must be "shiny, catchy," and concise, as followers will not engage with large, dense blocks of text.
Aligning Content with Audience Needs: Amy pointed out that the primary audience for many birth workers includes women who are fearful of birth and looking for reassurance, not political commentary; Mel concurred, noting that changing one's content to be politically heavy might inadvertently alienate the core demographic that the page is meant to serve.
Global Professional Impact: Helena noted that UK-based social media content impacts midwives globally, and that constant negativity can lower the professional self-esteem of midwives and students who look to the UK as an example.
Promoting Physiological Birth: Mel encouraged midwives to resist the over-medicalisation of childbirth and the shame associated with prioritising physiological birth; she emphasised that an ideology of physiology is supported by research, the World Health Organisation, and the International Confederation of Midwives.
Maintaining Momentum: Sheena noted that while political interests have gained a foothold, an increasing number of midwives are recognising and resisting the negative narrative; Mel concluded by urging the group to maintain their energy, stick together, and continue advocating for the profession.

AI Generated Transcript

[00:00:00] Mel: So this session today is about using social media to promote midwifery and counteract false narratives about midwives.

[00:00:10] I'm not supposing to know all of the ins and outs of the issues that are happening there for you in the UK. What I would like to share is, um, social media s- media strategy as to what we can do in this time to, uh, maybe be an alternative voice to some of the disparaging things that we're hearing about midwives.

[00:00:33] Uh, so I'll introduce myself for anybody who's not aware of my work. Um, I'm a predominantly- Primarily, primarily a midwife, a private midwife here in Australia. Have been for 18 years. Uh, but also a midwifery academic and most l- likely now you probably know me from my work on the Great Birth Rebellion podcast and potentially my social media presence.

[00:00:59] [00:01:00] Um- So, um, the other thing I'll ask is when we're chatting today, I can be... It can be really helpful to start your statement with, um, either my perspective is or my question is. Um, with these short sessions, one hour with so many people, it can be really easy to wanna share lots of context for your stories.

[00:01:25] Can I encourage you not to share too much context to make room for people, lots more people to ask questions? Um, and this whole session will be emailed to you afterwards as well. So to start off, I wanna share my thoughts about what's happening, the broader overarching umbrella of what is happening with, um...

[00:01:48] Oh, hang

[00:01:58] on a minute. I'm just gonna ... I think there's somebody who's... Oh, um, yeah. I'll just ask everybody to turn their mics [00:02:00] off if you've got it on. Um, okay. What I believe is happening here with this narrative against midwifery, can I suggest that it is classic play from the playbook of medicalization? This is exactly how midwifery was subjugated historically, is if you, if you have an active agenda to share messaging that midwives are dangerous, then this is the, uh, classic play from the medicalization playbook.

[00:02:39] This is how you disparage and de-professionalize a profession. Um, in preparing today, and it's... This is already was part of my thought process, I thought to ask AI, and I don't use it very often, but I asked AI, um, "If you were trying to sabotage midwifery, [00:03:00] uh, what is the playbook for the destruction of a profession?"

[00:03:04] And it said a few things. Uh, but the final point it made, um, and again, I don't use AI very often, but it's good at broad sweeping, um, things and understanding trends It said that if the aim would be to sabotage midwifery, then you should weaponize public relations and risk language. Uh, their suggestion was to pierce public trust by shifting the narrative about safety and risk.

[00:03:37] It suggested that if we want to sabotage midwifery, we should frame natural, low intervention physiology of midwifery as inherently dangerous compared to highly medicalized births. It suggested amplifying failures and ignoring successes of the profession, ensuring that any rare and adverse outcome in a [00:04:00] midwife-led birth setting, uh, draws massive media attention, while framing positive outcomes as lucky and systematic failures as unavoidable tragedies.

[00:04:13] So this is what the internet understands to be a strategic approach to the takedown of midwifery. I believe this is what's happening, and it's classic. It's, um, historically classic. So, um, this is what's happening. Physiological birth is being classed as risky, that needs management, and so the authoritative knowledge about birth is that, um, that women are constantly ticking time bod- bombs and at risk of something going wrong.

[00:04:49] And now the id- the language is, is that if we have a physiological ideology, that we are allowing bad things to happen to [00:05:00] women because of this ideology. So this is the new ... That, that tactic, I think, is actually fairly new. Um, the ve- the challenging physiology as a viable option for women that, you know, it's starting to be this new language being brought into this medicalization intention.

[00:05:22] So this is the process of medicalization. This is how birth was originally medicalized by changing the, the language and tactics, um, and disparaging midwifery as well as describing birth as inherently dangerous. So this is no new thing in the playbook. This is actually what we're, we're just witnessing it.

[00:05:43] It, this is our historical event. There was the witch hunts, the wi- when the midwives got burnt. This is a perpetuation of the witch hunt against midwives, and w- this ha- is happening on our watch. Um, so it's, it's a persistent process. I'm just reading [00:06:00] all the notes that I've madly wrote over the weekend as well, by the way.

[00:06:04] Um, so that's the problem. What I want to encourage for on social media- There's a issue with continually putting out the message of the problem. So when we say things like, "The media is saying that midwives are dangerous. Um, the media is saying that, uh, that women are in danger in the UK maternity care system," and we keep focusing on all the negative things, there's this subtle psychology that goes on in women's minds and in the minds of the people who are looking at social media, and it perpetuates the language that whoever is interested in this medicalized, uh, uh, philosophy is benefiting from all of the language they're trying to introduce into the vernacular.

[00:06:58] It's becoming mainstreamed [00:07:00] because we're all... or whoever's putting on social media, it's been putting... it, it's been sort of in their faces more often. And the thing with social media users is they're not diving deep into topics that are on social media. The current statistics say that people are firstly gen- generally making a decision about a social media post within seconds or, like, milliseconds of seeing it, and they're probably spending an average of three to six seconds on a post.

[00:07:34] So actually, whatever you want to say, whatever you want them to absorb from your social media posts almost has to be presented instantaneously. So if the very, very first thing that is popping up on someone's feed when they scroll past your post is another, is another headline about the issues in the UK maternity system and [00:08:00] another headline about the dangers of midwifery and physiological birth, it's a subtle tally back or in their mind, um, that's reminding them that there's a problem, that maybe midwives are part of it, that physiological birth seems to be part of it.

[00:08:17] But no one is intimately, like, picking apart our posts unless they're incredibly invested. So we've got to remember that social media is not a place for that long form and deep meaningful discussions. It's a place where people are trying to get a broad sweep of the landscape, and it is impacting their minds in subtle ways that they may or may not understand.

[00:08:42] So I guess what I wanted to firstly suggest is that whatever we're posting, if the very, very first part of it or the vibe of it is actually- Not in favor of what you want someone to take away from your post, you may have accidentally, uh, [00:09:00] perpetuated the new sort of rhetoric that's trying to be built around so- around physiological birth and, um, and midwifery.

[00:09:12] So that'll be the first thing is, which messages are you perpetuating on social media, um, and why? Because part of why, I guess, media outlets, newspapers, the news, social media outlets, they operate quite simply. So essentially, if they write a story or if a reporter does a story, and everybody looks at it, and there's a massive uproar, and there's huge social discussion, and it, and it, it goes viral, they know, keep running those stories.

[00:09:56] It's as simple as that. If a story [00:10:00] hits and they go, "Oh my gosh, do you see how many times that story was shared? Did you see the uproar? Did you see the responses?" All of a sudden, the editor of whatever that is or the creator of that outlet is thinking, "Great, this... We've gotta keep running these stories.

[00:10:17] This is a major event." So one part of me, you know, there's ways around this, and you can... If you, if you do wanna share a s- for example, a, um, a news story about what's happening, instead of sharing it directly from the site that you saw it or the Instagram page that you saw it or Facebook or whatever it is, instead of sort of clicking share, and because that tallies on somebody, on that person's social media page as a share and as a view, and then whoever views it on your page is actually tallying it up on this media outlet's page.

[00:10:58] So what they're seeing is [00:11:00] 1,000 people have shared our post, and it's gone viral. 100%, they are gonna post again and again on the exact same topic because it's all about getting eyes on a story. So if you can deflect people away from the story and towards something else that you actually wanna share, instead of perpetuating the negative messaging that the media wants you to share, you can actually choose the dialogue, choose the stories that you wanna share instead of sharing the ones that the media is hoping that are so extreme and so defamatory that everyone will be so outraged that this, there's this online public discussion, and they love it.

[00:11:43] They love our outrage. And so if you can just choose to post something else, assume that someone's gonna share it, and that it's gonna get out a little bit. But our audience, the women who are giving birth, are less likely to be reading [00:12:00] newspapers and watching the news and listening to radio. They're more likely to be sitting on social media and trying to get their news from social media.

[00:12:08] And so if we are sharing news that they normally wouldn't access- They normally wouldn't get. If we're sitting there perpetuating and sharing it, um, they're starting to receive the messages that we're trying to counteract, uh, or that you're trying to counteract. Um, and instead of you sharing a message of, "Hey, did you know that the World Health Organization is prioritizing, you know, finding 1,000...

[00:12:36] you know, and the ICM prioritizing it, one million more midwives because they know that midwives equals safe care for women?" That's a completely different story to, "Oh my gosh, the UK maternity care system is so shit, and also the midwives are dangerous. And when you idolize physiological birth, this is what's causing all the troubles."

[00:12:59] Uh, so [00:13:00] every time you share the problem, you share it with women who maybe actually need solutions. And well, what are, what are these women gonna do with this problem? They're fairly potentially powerless. Um, so It's not on my next page. Does anybody want it? I know I'm being, like, just saying everything that's on my mind right now and ranting.

[00:13:28] Um, Sheena, I would love to hear from you

[00:13:33] You're on mute though. You'll have to unmute

[00:13:37] Sheena: You do remind me of Hannah Dahlen so much, Mel.

[00:13:40] Mel: Yeah, she was my- You

[00:13:41] Sheena: look so cute when you speak. Oh, you really do. Anyway, good morning, everybody. It's great to see you all, and thank you so much, Mel, for doing this session. Um, it's so helpful. And I just... You know some of this because we've done the podcast with you.

[00:13:56] But I think just to, uh... I, I find what you've [00:14:00] said absolutely f- you know, s- fantastic, um, strategy, right? So I've learnt something already. Um, I knew kind of some of it, but I think that, you know, what you've said is... makes complete sense. Think what's been happening in the UK, and I've kind of been immersed in it for, like, 12 years, is that there's been this, this narrative coming stronger and stronger and stronger each year.

[00:14:26] And midwives have been t- too afraid to say anything. They've been silenced. And so, um, up until probably the pa- the, the last couple of years, uh, many... I'm, I'm, I'm speaking for the midwives I know now, not everybody. Um, they've been... they've felt afraid and afraid to even talk about physiological birth. And we've had, you know, sort of everything's been swept off the, the board.

[00:14:54] So, um, that's really... I think sometimes the frustration of that leads [00:15:00] you to start saying, "Hold on a minute. Enough so- enough already now. This is absolutely ridiculous." And the pressure that's been put on the latest, the latest sort of big news feed that came out about midwives in the UK, not... You know, you shouldn't, um- "They're dangerous," for example, from, from a, a- an MP.

[00:15:22] That was so... That was like the final straw really, and I think that if we hadn't have put that, pushed that out, that person wouldn't have felt sort of bamboozled into taking it down. We, we know that, uh, what's been happening recently is there's been this, like, surge of, "We're not putting up with this anymore."

[00:15:42] Do you know? We've, we've done it for so long. We've put- It's been years, year upon year upon year that we've been bashed down, bashed down. It's never been like this in all my career of 50 years. So, um, I, I, I really, I really appreciate what you've said because I [00:16:00] think it, you know, it'll certainly make me think about, about my, about different strategies.

[00:16:05] But I just want you to know that that's how a lot of my colleagues are feeling, that they can't stand it anymore. And it's only when you put something up that's shocking that people go, "Wow, what is going on?" You know? But I understand what you're saying as well. So I totally appreciate. That's a really great thing to do, and usually we've been trying to do that, like, put out evidence and, and, and sort of what really matters, and positive stories.

[00:16:33] But sometimes it gets to you, that you go, "Right, I am not standing for this anymore." Certainly I've felt like that. And, and it's outrage, you know? It's complete outrage, which is what you're saying the media wants. Um, but it has worked in certain circumstances. Do you know? It has, it has had- Yeah ... the effect it's needed to do to stop these people from keep pushing it out.

[00:16:58] So [00:17:00] anyway, enough. Thank you.

[00:17:01] Mel: Yes. I hear you, Sheena, and I feel like there's this balance. I think outrage is the appropriate emotion But, and, and it's okay to express outrage online. I guess think of the woman who's scrolling through her feed, and potentially she's pregnant and following lots of birth social media pages, and then is suddenly bombarded with these news stories and no counteracting messaging.

[00:17:32] Um, so I guess my encouragement is to consider what counteractive measurement, uh, uh, what counteractive strategy you can use, um, to offer some solutions. And when I asked AI about this post-apocalyptic, um, you know, how do we destroy midwifery question, it offered a counter playbook, which I didn't ask it for, but it's like, "If you were trying to counter this..."

[00:17:58] It suggested [00:18:00] presenting data-driven proof of positive birth outcomes. And so it's almost, um, like we should be offering, it's okay, point out the lie, essentially should be the strategy. So here's what was said, this is a lie because... And so perhaps, for example, if you were to post a... And I was trying to think of examples here, 'cause I, I hear you, Sheena, and I don't want to be like, "Don't share the news stories," because it is news, and it is a current issue But if you were going to capture somebody's attention for three seconds and you wanted to share a message in its entirety, and with the issue and the solution in one page, consider something like a, a photo tile.

[00:18:49] Maybe you have screenshotted the newspaper- the news post, for example, from an outlet, online outlet, [00:19:00] and then did some fancy editing of the title, for example. Maybe cross out one of the words and add the word that you think should be there. Um, take out kind of identifying features. Where would somebody find this news article?

[00:19:15] It's not important. What we need to highlight is there's some disparaging news articles going around. We're not going to tell you where they are, because we don't want your eyes to go there. Uh, we don't want you to give that post any views, 'cause we want... It's almost like you want it to appear online like the story's fizzled.

[00:19:36] And, but it's okay to share, but try not to reward their internet, their algorithm with views and outrage. But if you screenshot it, share it without tagging that outlet. Change it a little bit. What would you... What do you think it should say? What does the data say it should say? So if there's an... If there is a news article that talks about the dangers of [00:20:00] midwifery, you can cross out danger and put safety.

[00:20:04] And then... Or whatever it is you want to put. And then in your caption, have your, have the co- have, like, the proof of that. So, you know, World Health Organization has got document after document about how they're prioritizing mid- midwives for the, to solve maternity care solutions. And so you almost want to, um, argue against the s- the, um, the news stories at the same time as telling people what the news story is, but in one single post.

[00:20:36] Because I can promise you that as interesting as we think we are, nobody's deeping di- di- like, deep-diving into our social media posts to see the last three that you've done and all of the, um, discussions that you're doing on social media about this issue. They're not following along, if you know what I mean.

[00:20:55] I... And they don't even follow along my posts. Um, you know, I've got... [00:21:00] O- on all of my social media platforms, there's 200,000 followers, and I promise you, none of them are in, maybe a little few, are invested enough to actually even know what I posted three posts ago, because it's not. We're all just consuming, um, you know, three little second bites of what you're posting.

[00:21:20] So what you post has to be so complete every single time- That your messaging is coming through strong instead of a list of problems. You know, if you present problem after problem after problem, people just sink into this despondency of, gosh, we're just full of problems. There's no solutions. Maybe the midwives are dangerous.

[00:21:44] Maybe they are the cause of this issue, and people start to believe the new vernacular. So we've got to pr- go- provide the counterargument. The, the really great thing is, is there is so much research [00:22:00] for midwifery as being the safer option. We- there's very few research papers for anybody to grasp to say, "See, see, midwives are dangerous."

[00:22:10] It's very hard to find that research. It's very easy to find research about how safe it is to have midwifery care. All of the data is on our side. The World Health Organization is prioritizing midwives. The ICM has done a stack of research about what it will mean for women if there were one million more midwives in the world.

[00:22:32] A reduction, 65% reduction in newborn and maternal deaths. Like, this is the data that we have. So if you can start sharing with women The positive information about midwives, how we are the solution, the research knows we are the solution, um, then it starts to, um, alter the... it sort of starts to poke, um, holes in the current [00:23:00] story that the media's telling.

[00:23:01] Um, and in the... So Rachel's just posted, um, is an example that Sky News quoted a th- 1,000 deaths since 2010, but no context, um, that i.e. the same period almost 11 million births, so less than 0.4%. So I find some perspective helps me. I certainly did during COVID, but didn't wanna diminish the tragedies, especially where they could've been avoided.

[00:23:28] This is exactly right, Rachel. So you could say something like, "Sky News quoted 1,000 deaths since 2010. Let's have a look at that." And then you could say, you could break it down, "There were 11 million births. This is less than 0.04%." And if you were even... And if you, you could go one step further and go, "Let's look at the stats from 2000 and...

[00:23:53] from 2000 to 2010. Whoa, look at that, they haven't changed." I don't know what the stats are exactly. [00:24:00] But if you dig a little bit deeper, all the news outlets, they're just looking for a title and information that's gonna grab people's attention. They intentionally wanna put things out of context. They intentionally run outrage.

[00:24:15] They intentionally want us to share these stories. So if we can be more clever and not take that bait and do things like, "Hang on a second, that's no change. That's no increase. They're just plucked a stat out," or whatever it is. Um, so yes, that could be an example, Rachel. You could put the title up and go, "Well, let's look at this deeper."

[00:24:36] But just remember, people are only just skimming your information, so you have to put a lot, like enough of a, um, enough information in those very short- like, in a tile, um, to, to communicate what you're trying to say. Um, Ziggy.

[00:24:56] Anna: Oh, hi. It's Anna Melamed, actually, uh, but-

[00:24:58] Mel: Oh, sorry did. You're [00:25:00] great ...

[00:25:00] Anna: it's just email 'cause that's what my Google is, and I, I gotta have Sure, sure

[00:25:03] Mel: target. Okay, and I can't see, quite see your face.

[00:25:06] Anna: Yeah, hi. Um, I- You're talking about the women, which is obviously right and we want to do that. But there's another sort of angle I think, which is what Sheena was maybe pointing to as well, which is the MPs, the policy makers, they're about to sort of select this maternity advisor and we want to try and make sure that's someone who hears our message.

[00:25:27] So I think that's the other ... I don't know if there's a different strategy or, or, or something. You know, I think that's the other audience we have in mind. Obviously there are a lot of women, but we're also trying to kind of reclaim that narrative or push back, uh, for them. And that's our kind of challenge is that the sort of small group of tragic outcome families really have their ear.

[00:25:51] And it's, uh, which is I think partly some of our motivation for kind of going in more directly and letting it sort of set. You know, we have had Michelle [00:26:00] Welch retract and I, I don't know if you have any sort of other ideas about if that's who you're trying to get to.

[00:26:08] Mel: Yeah. I think the, you know, the, the name and shame strategy is not

[00:26:13] I, I think it's okay to a point where you're like, "Oh my gosh, look what this person said." And sometimes if the statements are so outlandish and so ridiculous, it's easy to post and go, "Oh my gosh, look what ... Look at this. This is outrageous because..." Not just like, "This is outrageous. We don't want this person."

[00:26:36] You know, da, da. This is outrageous because of this, this and this. Like explain why. That could be a thing. But if you're thinking social media is gonna be like your winning strategy, I think you need to be a lot more strategic in a sense of if, i- you know, just posting and having someone remove a, a comment off Facebook [00:27:00] or social med- or Instagram doesn't necessarily change the background things of what's going on in politics.

[00:27:07] So you kind of have to also have a strategy for writing to the right people, like emailing them. Things that you're doing in private are gonna be, have like more power Ultimately for decision-making rather than just kinda te- you know, putting out spot fires on social media. That's just the, it's just the public face.

[00:27:29] There's so many things going on in the background in private that, you know, you should be bombarding members of Parliament with letters. Um, planning protests that are, like, real life things like that. Um, getting together with other, um, consumer organizations, maybe free organizations, to have a unified, um, approach to, you know, writing to people.

[00:27:55] So social media's, like, the tiniest little bit of what you could be doing. [00:28:00] Um, with the political stuff you gotta get political strategy, not social media strategy. Um, so yes, it's one thing, but, um, they're not ... They're gonna be looking at, um ... Yeah, I think it's bigger than just kinda the little snippets that you're seeing on social media.

[00:28:21] I would get active in the background, like boring letters and ... Yes, Caroline?

[00:28:30] I love that you put your hand up, by the way. That was the cutest thing ever.

[00:28:33] Caroline: I've, I've no idea how to use Google Meet. No. Um, so I would say is, um, I am about to go to the APPG, um, for baby loss, where I believe the person who wrote, uh, uh, who, you know, um, she is gonna be there. How do I be clever? By, I'm gonna be in the room.

[00:28:53] I'm like, it's taken ages for me to be in the room, and I wanna be in the room, and what can I do? What things do we think that [00:29:00] I can... 'Cause I am a midwife, and I've lost my baby. So I'm like, feel like I really, like, I've got quite a lot of experience in multiple, I'm an expert in multiple places. Um- Yeah

[00:29:13] how do I get my voice? What kind of like, like, I don't know, if we're talking about this, like, how do we-

[00:29:20] Mel: Mm. Great. So if you have worked out how do you get- You're in the room. You're in the right room. I would, as succinctly as possible, share your story, your personal story, 'cause- Mm-hmm ... people hear personal stories.

[00:29:38] Sheena: Yeah. I

[00:29:39] Mel: would really, um, the things we need to be so clear of, and this is one of my other points that I'll make later, is that we should only speak... If, if we're speaking from our experience and knowledge and expertise, then we can defend our position as midwives. [00:30:00] I would try not to step too far- Mm ... out of your, um, realm of expertise because then you start rambling and you're not quite sure how to put an argument together for things that we're not entirely sure about.

[00:30:11] So I would... Y- you already know your story intimately. That's- Yeah ... perfect. Then I would, um, draw up a case for why midwives are the safest option- Mm-hmm ... to build a maternity care system.

[00:30:29] Caroline: I need to- And- ... you know, make sure I have the evidence on the tip of my tongue.

[00:30:33] Mel: Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. And I wouldn't, don't go too deep, and this is, um, I spin out when I'm writing podcast episodes, I, like, spin out of how many research papers there are, and I can't...

[00:30:44] Sometimes I get discombobulated and I think, "Oh, my gosh, I can't cover them all." Find like, think for yourself, find five high-quality, excellent documents that clearly demonstrate that midwifery care [00:31:00] is the best and safest option for women as a start, like, as, as the basis of maternity

[00:31:06] Caroline: care. Yeah. Think so.

[00:31:07] Mel: Yeah. And understand those papers.

[00:31:10] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:31:10] Mel: And, you know, there's Cochrane Reviews. Um, yep, Sheena's bi- Sheena's saying, um, The Lancet. Um, it's okay to c- to even reference things like the World Health Organization- Yeah. Okay ... commitments, um, and say, look, what the UK is proposing is in direct opposition not only to research, but direct opposition to the global strategy that the World Health Organization is trying to, um- I

[00:31:37] Caroline: need to get that little...

[00:31:39] Can you message me that?

[00:31:41] Mel: It's gonna... This is all recorded. I'm gonna send you the recording.

[00:31:44] Caroline: Okay. Cool. So

[00:31:45] Mel: you need to highlight that what is being recommended- Yeah ... in the UK is in direct opposition- Yeah ... not only to research, but also to the, to the innovations that the world, what the World Health Organization is aiming for.

[00:31:58] And so you almost [00:32:00] need to- Make the recommendations to, you know, pare back midwifery as a, as a, a primary maternity care providers

[00:32:09] Sheena: Mm-hmm ...

[00:32:09] Mel: um, as quite laughable. Because when you look at the research and when you look at global initiatives, they're all focused on giving women midwifery care. Um, so and then don't allow yourself to get clouded by all the rest.

[00:32:24] All you need to do is create a case for midwifery, which should be easy because the case is already made by researchers, and the World Health Organization have lapped that up. Um- Yeah ... and, and tell your personal story-

[00:32:38] Sheena: Okay ...

[00:32:38] Mel: as well. Um, I'm gonna have a quick look through these other comments, too, to see if I can share anything.

[00:32:45] Thank you. Um, does that help, Caroline?

[00:32:47] Caroline: Yeah. Well, I kind of, 'cause I kind of stopped doing my trauma bombing, um- But then I did do it, and then I, yeah. I was like, it's kind of quite difficult one [00:33:00] because I kind of feel like I don't want to be doing, but then I do. You're right. I, it is like my, my, my situation is very unique, so actually, and I think it's quite valid in supporting, um, supporting the...

[00:33:14] I, I'm an MLBU midwife, like, through and through. I believe, like, you know, I was about, when I had my daughter, I was, I was like, I'm like, I was like, "I'm gonna come and fight for" "fight for", um, you know, it all, midwifery, and then I lost her, and then my whole world kind of turned up- upside down. But, um, I still through and through, you know, I'm a midwife.

[00:33:37] Like, cut me in half and there's midw- you know, midwife through me. Um, so Yeah, I think it's an interesting... Yeah, so maybe in this context actually it's quite useful to have the two things together to compare. Yeah, and

[00:33:49] Mel: I believe it's okay... Yeah, it's okay to tell your story. It's not... It tur- certainly wouldn't describe it as, like, trauma bombing.

[00:33:57] It's- Okay ... it's here's my story, [00:34:00] you know. It doesn't even have to be, when you present it, um, a few succinct sentences.

[00:34:06] Caroline: Yeah.

[00:34:06] Mel: This is who... This is what happened to me. I still fundamentally believe in midwifery because- Yeah ... um, and, and then you, you know, it's... Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:20] Sheena: Yeah. Thank

[00:34:21] Mel: you. Well done. Amazing. Okay.

[00:34:22] So, um, and Natasha says, "My perspective is media is focusing on midwives, but the reports clearly say it's the system." Yes, I did have a look at some of the reports and the findings and the suggestions. Um, including toxic leadership, bullying, and racism. This is another tactic, is you can deflect away from the focus on midwives and focus on, if you go, "Hey, here's what the Ock- these are what the report said.

[00:34:50] Here's what the Amos report said and the Ockenden report," I don't know if I'm pronouncing all those correctly. Here are the systematic issues that were identified. [00:35:00] And it's okay to kind of a little bit play fire with fire. You don't want to play this the whole time. People don't want to come to your page to hear you just badmouth the system over and over and over again.

[00:35:10] Like, it's not productive. But it's okay to, um, identify, hey, here's what's being said, but here's the full truth. Here's what was actually said in the report. Because the general public isn't reading the reports. They're only reading the reports about the reports. They're only reading what the media's saying.

[00:35:32] They're only reading what the, um, media outlets are putting out and news outlets are putting out, what you guys are putting out. So it's okay, maybe you want to pluck a sentence out there and go, "Here's part of what it said. Here's what I have to say about that." And it doesn't have to be about midwives, it can be about the systematic failures.

[00:35:49] Um, you want to almost deflect away from the messaging that, hey, midwives are the problem here, and you go, "That's not actually what the report said." Um, so call out false [00:36:00] narratives about what's being put out there is another possibility. So Rachel, that might... Um, sorry, Natasha, that might be a strategy. Um, Rachel's saying, "I can see how this helps with, uh, post truth content, stuff that has no..."

[00:36:14] But yes. Um, is there a strategy for the p- performative outrage we are seeing, um, and jumping on the bandwagon, and the really loud voices are coming from their own Instagram, of their own wounds on Instagram? This is the other thing I was gonna mention, um, is-

[00:36:51] Again, unless you're Taylor Swift or somebody with this huge, like, invested fan following, no one is particularly interested in your emotional response to a lot of these things. So if you're, "I'm outraged, and I'm so upset, and I can't believe it," um, it can be cathartic for you to put things out on social media, and [00:37:00] sometimes, like, I'll put a post up and I think, "This is not for anybody else except my own healing process right now, and I'm aware of that.

[00:37:08] I know that me putting this out there is completely selfish 'cause I need to vent." So if you're putting things out there, you think, "I just need to vent this out in public so I can move on," that's one thing. Um, but if you're putting it out there thinking that it's gonna have a positive impact on the situation, it probably won't.

[00:37:28] It's just really cathartic and nice for you. Um, so yeah, there is, um, people's own wounds coming out on social media, and I will talk a bit about how to deal with kind of public backlash. Become an expert in, um, blocking, hiding, and canceling my followers online as a result of kind of, uh, interactions. Um, yeah.

[00:37:55] Uh, and then yeah, Sheena says, "I agree. Letters are important. The [00:38:00] last episode needed both, I believe." Yeah, all of it. Um, it's almost if you think about social media, you know, like, you wouldn't just go and do a protest. There's also a whole political campaign in the background. There's letters being sent.

[00:38:12] There's people going to meetings. There's all kinds of stuff. If you see social media as just, like, the little march in the street, but it doesn't do a whole lot necessarily. There's got to be the accompanying other strategy. Um, so don't think, "Look, I'm posting on social media. I'm doing my little bit." You kind of, you're a body in the protest, but you've got to be doing the stuff in the background to see long, sustained change.

[00:38:35] Um, yeah, and so two different things. Uh, can people share any of these links? I don't know which links. Um, okay. W- well, there's lots of comments. Oh, here we go. There's lots of... Oh, look at that. So Dan Jackson, who's looking up research papers for you all, who's happens to be my husband, he's in the other room, um, looking up links that you can share.[00:39:00]

[00:39:00] Um, hopefully they're good. Um-

[00:39:06] Sheena

[00:39:10] Sheena: I'm asking for a friend Yes ... um, but I, I've also had this co- uh, conundrum, um, especially, especially on our professional pages, not knowing how to deal with something. What's your take on... So I have put a comment about this. So a mid- midwives are writing, doing what you say, and actually deflecting the news, and writing something positive whilst mentioning the bad news that's been out, but mentioning p- uh, birth stories, for example, or antenatal care, and writing something really positive.

[00:39:48] And then they receive a really traumatic comment from someone who's been harmed, and that's happening a lot at the moment because, as you know, there's all these reviews. [00:40:00] There are damaged people who are getting, quite rightly, their space to, to, you know, find a voice to say, "I want to... I want, I want someone to listen to me."

[00:40:11] So I know that this happened this week. I'm in a WhatsApp group with some midwives who, one of them is, was really upset about that, who tried to deflect the, the news and put, and put something positive on. And she said, "Should I delete the comment? Should I leave it and answer it?" Uh, but she was unsure how to do that, apart from being empathetic, um, with the situation.

[00:40:37] Um, and, and, and she even thought about... She was so upset, she even thought about just taking the post down altogether. Now, I know, Mel, that you've, you've kind of, you know, sort of done things actively when you've had, when you've had, uh, uh, situations where someone's complained about you, for example, and you've dealt with it online.

[00:40:56] And how do you deal with that sort of situation where... [00:41:00] Because the last thing we want to do is say to people, "Well, actually, yes, you were harmed, but midw- uh, but midwives are all fantastic, and they can't-" Mm-hmm ... possibly have d- You know, it's sort of like you're saying y- "It's not true what you've said."

[00:41:13] Well, that's w- that's how people are perceiving it that have been harmed. They're perceiving that you're not listening. You're one of those people who's not listening. You're just saying everything's fine. So that's a, that's a really tricky situation, isn't it? So, so, so this particular midwife, and I've been, I've been here as well, is saying, "What should we do?

[00:41:33] Should we answer the comment, delete it, or, or block, or what? What should we do?" What are your thoughts on that?

[00:41:40] Mel: Yes, I love this question 'cause it's what I, I wanted to talk about it. Let me see. I'll find my notes to make sure I'm not going too far off what I wanted to say about it. Okay. All right. Okay, so here's how...

[00:41:54] I've had to, uh, come up with kind of a, a little formula in my [00:42:00] head of how to deal with comments that are kinda, uh, I guess less supportive, like are unsupportive of the posts that I've put up, and that's not a bad thing. I'm quite, you know, if... And I love a, a hearty, respectful discussion, and when people can be respectful online, that's, I...

[00:42:22] For me, I completely welcome and encourage it. So they're like, "Hey, you know, I, I know that you put that paper up, but did, did you also notice how they had this stat? Uh, because to me that meant this." And I'm like, "Oh, that's interesting. I didn't see that." Or, okay. However, what I've noticed on social media is it's very rare for a respectful conversation to occur, full stop, um, with somebody who doesn't agree with your original post.

[00:42:51] It's very, I, uh, one of my points that I put here is, um- Uh [00:43:00] Don't debate people online. No one wins. I don't think- Mm-hmm ... arguments can be won online.

[00:43:08] Sheena: Absolutely.

[00:43:09] Mel: I don't think that, um... If somebody's posting in response, it's because they feel strongly about their side. And so I always remember there's no way ever, if somebody comes across strongly in a comment, my response is futile.

[00:43:32] It may, um... It won't convince them otherwise. It will probably be misconstrued by their own trauma, um, or whatever they already believe they're gonna lay into the words that you've said. There's almost nuck- nothing you can say to improve the situation. For me, I leave comments that are not personally attacking.

[00:43:58] So, um, [00:44:00] even if the person completely disagrees with what I said, like, "I don't agree with what you said because this happened to me," um, that's all true. They don't agree. That happened to them. If they end it by saying, "And you're a total bitch for having said this, and how dare you, and I'm gonna this and I'm gonna that", that's immediate delete and also immediate block.

[00:44:23] I don't allow anyone to call me anything on social media. I don't allow personal attacks. That's my personal boundary. Um, because I have so many followers, I can't allow anything to disturb my online peace, basically. So if they're so damaged that they feel like they need to personally attack me, I will hide, delete.

[00:44:49] Um, if it doesn't continue, maybe not block, but definitely hide. But if someone shares a story, and, and women do it all the time. You know, if I put up, you know, "Hey, it's better to tear than [00:45:00] have an episiotomy", and somebody puts up, "Oh yeah, well, I had a fourth-degree tear and now this, and I wish I'd had an episiotomy", um, and you know, "I, I'm incontinent and uh, it's been terrible and horrible.

[00:45:13] I wouldn't recommend anybody have a tear over an episiotomy", that comment stays up because they've just shared their story. I don't usually engage with those. Um, it's kind of also not my responsibility. I didn't do that. And neither, and hopefully none of you have been the midwives in charge, you know, responsible for, um, you know, possible negligence or poor outcomes.

[00:45:42] So it's a boundary of like, this is actually not my problem. I didn't do that to this person. They're angry at me 'cause I'm perpetuating a message that upsets them. But also being really clear about what is r- you're responsible for and what you're not responsible for. And so if [00:46:00] somebody, you know, uh, if- stories all the time from women in the comments that are opposite to what I've sort of said, um, and people don't agree, and that's completely fine.

[00:46:08] I leave those. But if it starts to descend into name-calling, um, I t- I hide the ones that start name-calling. 'Cause the other thing that happens is, you know, there's a tipping point where if somebody doesn't agree and they come into the comments to, to have a discussion about it, and they can see there's already a pile-on, they just pile into it.

[00:46:31] So I nip it in the bud. I'm just like, if somebody starts to call me names or starts to say something, um, it's hide, hide, hide, hide, hide. It's not appropriate. If it wasn't appropriate face to face, it's not appropriate online as far as I'm concerned. I consider my social media my house, and that anybody who comments has knocked on my door and I've opened it.

[00:46:52] Um, and if they don't have something nice to say or interesting to say, they're not allowed in the house. It's just [00:47:00] hide that comment, it's gone. And if they continue, and this has happened occasionally where I've said to somebody, like, "You need to stop," like, "This is not okay," and they keep coming back or they come to my private messages or they something like that, I just block them because they're not my audience.

[00:47:16] I don't want to make content for them. And it doesn't matter what I make, if they are so aggressive that they are finding new ways to, to insult me, then they're not welcome on my social media page, and they're not welcome in my space. Um, so I have really strong boundaries. I think it's wise not to engage with the women who have come on your page sharing trauma stories, because we can't help them.

[00:47:45] It's, I think it would make it worse to actually respond and engage and be a listening ear. It's, it could almost be a re-traumatizing event for them if we don't say what they needed to hear, and it's such a public, [00:48:00] um, space. And occasionally women will come into my, like, private messages and say, "Well, this happened to me, and your post really upset me."

[00:48:10] Um, and usually I'll respond with, "Whoa, that is a massive thing that happened to you, and I'm so sorry." Um, you know, and I don't try and drive my point home unless they've kind of... I'm like, "Look, what I was saying is really based on the research that I read. I don't know your personal circumstance. I'm really sorry that happened to you.

[00:48:30] But when I look at the research, this is what I could see, and I'm sorry that my post was upsetting for you." But their upset is also not my responsibility. And so I'm really clear about, you know, you got upset, but that is for that woman to deal with. Because if they're so upset and traumatized by birth content, they can choose not to follow it.

[00:48:54] Don't follow my page if you don't like what I'm saying. Like, this is your personal choice. [00:49:00] Um, so it's almost, um, we're not f- I'm not forcing information in front of women, and I'm not forcing them to comment. And if they don't like it, they can choose to unfollow. It's, I'm, you know... Um, um, what else did I say?

[00:49:16] Yeah, don't debate people online. No one wins. Keep strong boundaries. Your social media is your house, and you're the boss of it. Um, and I only speak to people who are listening and who are respectful. So, um, I don't know if anybody saw before I hid all of them and blocked all of them, on the very post that you guys clicked UK Midwife on to join this session, there was a whole discussion that started occurring that was not on the topic of this.

[00:49:44] Um, and then a few midwives started, or birth workers, whoever it was, um, were questioning my integrity and intentions. And a few times I'd be like, "I've already answered this question, you know, this is not what's happening." And I just hid and [00:50:00] deleted and blocked because if they don't... If they're interested in behaving that way towards me, I don't want them, um, getting any of the information that I'm putting out.

[00:50:12] They're obviously not friends, they're foes if they, if they're so happy to personally attack you on a public forum. Um, yeah, in terms of the women's hurt, I think that's one thing. They're free to share their story, not free to personally attack you. Um, but also I don't think it's professional to engage with those stories online as a midwife.

[00:50:35] Um, I think-

[00:50:38] Sheena: That's really helpful, thank you. Mm.

[00:50:39] Mel: Yeah.

[00:50:40] Sheena: Really helpful.

[00:50:42] Mel: Um, the other thing I want to say about dealing with the opposition is it is definitely hurtful. Mm. So whenever people write messages about you, and the reason, um, I actually go off, instead of having... I mean, I do have a clear metric for which messages [00:51:00] get hidden and which people get blocked, but I really tap into how what they said made me feel- Um, and usually, and the personally attacking comments, they do definitely hurt, but I don't let them hurt for too long.

[00:51:16] 'Cause if you leave them there, 100% you go back and read those three or four times, right? Everyone who's gotten a negative comment, you don't go to the 25 other comments that were so beautiful and supportive. They just run off. The one you keep going back to and rereading and thinking about responding to, and then half writing a message, and then un-messaging, and then...

[00:51:38] And then in a weak moment, you write back something. Those are the ones that take your energy, time, and joy that could be really better spent doing something else, because you're never gonna solve that problem by engaging. Anybody who's willing to attack you online has not got your interests at heart.

[00:51:59] They're never gonna [00:52:00] be convinced to your side of things, ever. Um, th- it's, it's futile. So, um, I've given up. Like, I know now, I'm like, "I'm not engaging with that comment." Or engaging really unemotionally. So some of the comments that were on the thread that I had for this particular thing were, "Well," like, "What are you doing this for?"

[00:52:23] Like, it's... They were accusing me of being disingenuous. I promise you I'm not trying to sell you anything. Uh, you know, and I was like, "Look, this is a completely free session. There's nothing for sale." It's like, honestly, I just wanted to share some of the knowledge that I had. Um, end of story, I'm not responding again, and then they kept coming back and coming back and coming...

[00:52:42] I was like, "Right, that's it. End of that. That's the end of that discussion. You can all leave the house now." And I've given... You know, occasionally I'll engage, uh, but only very factually, unemotionally, um, robotic. Like, this is not your responsibility to deal with difficult people online. [00:53:00] You've got better things to do.

[00:53:01] So, um, that's how I protect my energy and time, um, and make sure that it doesn't aggravate me because then I go back out to my family, and the minute one of my children asks me for something and I'm already agitated from some negative person online, that starts to affect them, and that pisses me off. So I'm like, "Nup, not allowing you, random person who's got all this time, um, to, to attack somebody else online.

[00:53:31] Uh, not letting you steal my joy or my time or my energy." So, um, I would just... Yeah. That would be my rant about dealing with that kind of thing. Um, I'm just gonna have a little look here. Just

[00:53:47] Sheena: while you're looking, can I just ask Caroline, please? Yeah. I'm sorry to sabotage this, uh, this meeting with this question.

[00:53:54] But Caroline, could I stay in touch with you, please? I can't find your email address. Could we connect [00:54:00] after? I don't know, I don't know how to send you a private message. Right, that, that's... I'll stop talking now.

[00:54:04] Caroline: Yeah, yeah. I've, uh, we've, yeah, I've messaged you on Instagram.

[00:54:11] Mel: We can swap numbers.

[00:54:12] Caroline: Nice work, guys. Um, so- We've met

[00:54:12] Mel: a

[00:54:12] Caroline: few times, haven't we?

[00:54:14] Mel: Uh, so let's see. Suzanne said, "I had someone leave a negative comment, and I apologized that she'd taken my comment in the way she had and gave a simple explanation of how I hadn't intended to upset people and gave her more context, and she got back to me and apologized.

[00:54:30] And she said her reaction was over the top. Um, I know not everyone will respond like that, but I felt it was worth a try. Uh, my take is accept that person's trust, acknowledge yours, and apologize for misunderstandings. Um, so leave the comment." That's helpful. Good on you, Suzanne. Um, I don't have time to respond to everybody's comments and apologize for their feelings, um, because I'm, I'm sorry that you felt that way.

[00:54:56] Uh, it's also not my responsibility, but that's my personal [00:55:00] boundary is I'm really clear on I'm sorry if you felt that way. That's your thing to deal with, not my thing to deal with. But Suzanne, I appreciate that you had the time for it. Um, uh- I like... Oh, yeah. Uh, when I, I... Uh, there's a comment about when I post, um, I get worried about what I wrote in case I say something that my employer doesn't like, and I worry about getting in trouble, especially if what I'm saying is radical.

[00:55:28] Um, how do we deal with this worry? I can't be the only one. Yes. So I mean, I think about it too because there's rules around, um, like for me, our registration body has rules about what we can do on social media, and potentially yours does too. I'm really, really careful that I only ever post something that I could absolutely back up with research.

[00:55:50] So if somebody said, um, "Oh, your post about episiotomies is, is rubbish," I'll go, "Actually, here's where I got the [00:56:00] information for that post." And as much as I can, I will put the paper in the caption so it's clear from people that I haven't just made this flippant comment. Um, you know, better to tear than have an episiotomy, da, da, da, and I'll go, "Here's the paper.

[00:56:14] When I was reading this paper, da, da, da, I took away this quote that I thought was super interesting", and, uh, and just making sure I always write something thinking, "Could I defend this comment to a panel of three people who were interested in interrogating me?" I have to do that with the podcast as well.

[00:56:31] So anything you post, just make sure it's true and factual and that you've got justification for it, and then you can't really get in trouble. Um, yeah. Rachel's saying, "I love your strength of boundaries." Yeah. It becomes essential when you've gotta deal daily with the public. Um, just really solid boundaries.

[00:56:49] And again, it's just I will do my abso- I'm always polite to people. I, um, will not retaliate. I don't call people names. I'm very super respectful. [00:57:00] Um, but also you're not to do that to me because I'm a person. And, and I actually, um, respect myself. Uh, like I'm, I, um, love and respect myself, and so I don't allow people to treat me poorly.

[00:57:16] Um, so hopefully you feel the same about yourself and think, "I deserve to be treated well." Um, okay, let me see. We've got like one minute. I will just see if there's anything I haven't absolutely said that I think... You know, when you go away from a conversation, you went, "Ah, I should have said this," you know, from an argument.

[00:57:34] Uh, I'll just check that I haven't. Uh, I will also send you... I've written an essay on authoritative knowledge around birth narratives. Super sexy. Um, so I'm also gonna send you that essay when I send you the email, 'cause I want to talk about it, but I've got an essay, so I'll send that. Um, yeah. So that All right.

[00:57:58] So, yeah, I mean, the crux [00:58:00] of this is, is change the story away from the demonization of midwives of physiological birth and start highlighting the facts and truth about midwifery. That's a strategy, a counteracting strategy. Um, how to spread a story. Okay. Uh, uh, my note is, is this is all about marketing midwifery.

[00:58:22] So anytime you post a story is, is this marketing midwifery? And you can highlight a problem. The problem is, is that the mater- the UK maternity system is not listening to the research about midwifery. Here's the current research about midwifery. So you can highlight the problem, but always be thinking, is this value?

[00:58:44] Is- am I marketing midwifery in this post, or am I just throwing stones at something that I don't like? Um, so Yeah, news outlets rely on our eyes seeing their stories, so avoid sharing their [00:59:00] stories. Share the ones you want people to see. Um, the benefit of the internet is that we can choose the dialogue.

[00:59:09] If we perpetuate dialogue, um, that we want to see be perpetuated, we become part of the solution. And don't underestimate the power of AI in this scenario. AI is grabbing information off the internet to build a story in its own mind. So if we are bombarding the internet with positive midwifery stories, we're feeding into this AI beast that is learning about midwives and about the benefits of midwives.

[00:59:40] So let's keep... If you're imagining yourself feeding this absurd algorithm and feeding AI information about the benefits of midwifery, we've got all of the research to support us, so we're not lying, we're just perpetuating truth. Um, only speak about your area of expertise. [01:00:00] Don't try and speak outside of your area of expertise 'cause you will bumble and you'll be nervous, um, and you'll be less confident about your message.

[01:00:08] So be sure about your messaging, read the research, understand it, learn about what the global initiatives are around midwifery, and share those. Share what you know. Um, don't start sharing outside 'cause you'll, um, it's obvious. And then spoke about that. Okay. I think, I think that's all I wanted to say, and we are at three minutes past.

[01:00:34] Um, thank you guys for the beautiful comments. Um, I hope it wasn't just a ginormous rant. And I'm more than happy if anybody, it, would love to stay and ask more questions, happy to answer those, but I also acknowledge that you all have families and it's a Sunday morning, so, you know, please feel, don't feel obliged to stay.

[01:00:56] But I can stay for maybe, like, another half hour if [01:01:00] anybody has any pressing questions. Um, yeah, so I think that the UK is out of step with the WHO, with the World Health Organization is a really good point. So, you know, just really highlight some of the stupidity based on what else is going on in the global, um, global stage.

[01:01:16] Sheena

[01:01:18] Sheena: Yeah, I, I'm happy just to stay for one more question. Thank you so much. Yeah. It's actually not a question. Yeah. It's something I wanted to share with you, actually, and the rest of the group if they're interested, is that, um, over the past 12 months, we, we, m- myself and Anna, have received quite a lot of, uh, criticism, online criticism.

[01:01:38] So not on our posts, but on people writing things about us because we haven't done what they wanted us to do. And I'm not going to tell you what it's about because it w- it's, it's emotional. But, um, it's, it's kind of... Well, we've had this a few times. If we haven't, as an organization, done what a [01:02:00] particular group wanted us to do, there's been this absolute, when you said pile on, it's been...

[01:02:06] And it's so em- it's so distressing. Like, it really is distressing. And as you mentioned, you know, it does take away, it sucks your energy, takes your joy away, and you start to believe things, you know? You start to think, "Oh, are we this? Are we like this?" And we're actually not. We know we're not. Um, but that's really hard, isn't it?

[01:02:26] I mean, I, I'd love to have, when it was happening to us, I would love to have had a commu- conversation with you about that. I think it's, you know, we've been through it now and we're kind of at the other end. But it's really, I think social media at times can be so damaging, um, to, to your mental health. So I've had to kind of learn, um, how to deal with that.

[01:02:50] So I'm sharing it with the group because I just think it's a, it's a reality. Yeah. When, especially when you've got a, a, a, you know, a, a big following, [01:03:00] you, you, you feel like you've got responsibilities to certain things in the world. But then you only have to... I, we feel like we can only go with what we think is right at the end of the day, and it's, you know, we're, we're a small, we are a small organization.

[01:03:15] Even though we have a big following, we're small, so we have to go with our natural, uh, h- who we are as people. But we, but we're being bombarded with negativity, so much so that you think, "Oh, I can't deal with this anymore. Like, I have to, I'm gonna have to run away or something." Uh- Yeah ... but then we have to dealt with it.

[01:03:34] And the thing that's helped, I'll, I'll, I, I'd like to know what you think, but what's helped us so far is when we've had peers around us who've seen it and come in and supported us and said, "Look, don't take any notice of that." Do you know? So, so just as- Yeah ... in bullying happens in... 'Cause it is bullying, basically.

[01:03:54] It's real bullying on a grand scale. Um, so I just, from my perspective, it's [01:04:00] been the people that have helped me to get through it, the love and affection I've had from, from, from people who I trust. But it is still hard. You do still think about it sometimes.

[01:04:12] Mel: It really sticks. And there's this amazing paper that I read once about how women make their choices about maternity care, and the paper was a psychological paper of how bad is more powerful than good, and how the bad stuff sticks more than the good stuff.

[01:04:30] Um, now I'll share, 'cause Sheena- Hannah Dahlen is my mentor and very, very good friend, and we still talk frequently. And her s- her words ring in my head all the time. Um, she said, "If you don't... If, if you are doing things of influence, you will have haters, and you know you've made it when you have haters. If you don't have anybody opposing you, you're not having an impact.

[01:04:59] But when people [01:05:00] oppose you, you know that you're having an impact," and that's really heartening for me. I'm like, "Wow, I've fin- I've made it." So when hate comes, I think that means, um, that means people are getting annoyed because the im- what you're doing is impacting, um, impacting the landscape. And then remember, you're the boss of the, your own digital platform and footprint.

[01:05:27] And so I just delete it- Yeah ... and block it, 'cause they're not, they're not your people. They're not there to support you. No. They're only ever going to be there to pile on and hate. But if you cut off their access, if you don't even let them in the front gate, they don't even know where you live, then they can't do it

[01:05:48] Sheena: That's right.

[01:05:49] And, and, and Emily's put in, Em's, uh, Em's a, a lovely midwife in England. She's written that I shared exactly that with her because she's had some [01:06:00] negativity on her feed, and I shared with what... 'Cause Hannah's my dear friend as well, and Hannah's been through a lot with me, so she's kind of, you know, ha- I mean, in the past, that is.

[01:06:11] We've had, we've had haters from America and everywhere drawing pictures of us and all kinds of things. But this is a d- this was a different thing. This was... They, they, they were saying that we should have done something that was a political kind of, you know, a politic- it was, it was around Palestine and Israel, you know.

[01:06:31] We should've been making statements, basically. And we don't put anything political on our platforms, 'cause we're publishers. We're midwifery educators, nurturers, lovers of midwives. That's what we do. So but they, they, they... We had a whole backlash against that, against us. And I can't say then in that instance, "Well, I'm making a difference, so I, I wear it as a badge of honor", as what Ahmed Arlan would say.

[01:06:57] That's not the same situation as somebody [01:07:00] criticizing you for writing something. It's kind of like going against your integrity and, and so the... It, it was a different thing, really. But I, I, I understand what Hannah said. Hannah's helped me so much, and like I'm helping others to negotiate the space. Um, so I just wanted to...

[01:07:18] There may not be a solution to this, but definitely blocking. I absolutely block. Block, block, block. No, no, I've got no hesitation. Uh, but I love your analogy of knocking at the door. Yeah. I think that's brilliant, and people coming in. I just think that's absolutely great.

[01:07:36] Mel: I know, and it's like, what, what are you do- and nobody...

[01:07:38] You can't come into my house and talk to me like this. And, you know, on the other issue, there's, there's always going to be global issues that arise that the minute you have any kind of platform or anything, people expect that- Yeah ... you are gonna have an opinion- Mm-hmm ... about something that [01:08:00] truthfully you may know nothing about.

[01:08:02] Sheena: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:03] Mel: And people try and force you to have an opinion- Yeah ... and then force you to share your opinion. Mm-hmm. That's also a massive overreach of how entitled they feel to extract something from you that doesn't belong to them. Mm-hmm. And again, it's about your personal boundary is, I beg your pardon? You are suggesting that I have some kind of responsibility- To have knowledge and an opinion about something, and then share it and market it for some reason.

[01:08:41] And so it's almost a little bit audacious for people to come on and say, "You should have an opinion about this." It's like, actually, my whole social media presence is solely about midwifery research and midwifery and, and woman-centered care. That is the entire, um... And, and my opinion about [01:09:00] anything else is none of your business.

[01:09:02] Because there are global issues going on all the time. There's not just the global, um, you know, injustices and humanitarian issues. There's famine, there's violence against women. There's all kinds of things that we could have opinions and campaigns about, but that's not what our main focus is online. And so, yeah, when people are, "You should have an opinion about this", it's like- Mm-hmm

[01:09:24] I may have an opinion about it, but you don't have a right to hear it. Mm-hmm. And that people are trying to extract it from you is, um, it's, it kind of, um- Yeah. It's an interesting thing because they try and shame, like they try and use shaming language Yeah Um, but they can only shame you if you, like, feel ashamed about it.

[01:09:45] And I, I mean, like that's not... I don't know anything about some of these political things. Um, so how can I make comment? Like, and also what benefit is it gonna be for me to publicly pick a side here, um, on this [01:10:00] issue? Like, yeah, it's, um, someone

[01:10:03] Sheena: actually- I wish I'd have had your... I wish I'd have had, uh, I should have really reached out to you at that time, um- Oh

[01:10:09] just to see what you thought about it. 'Cause it se- it seriously, like, had a massive effect on, on me personally. And, and, and, and so I'm over it now kind of, but I just thought it would be worth sharing. Uh, so I've just- Yeah ... shared in the, in here that somebody actually wrote a whole blog post about me. Um, a midwife wrote how shocking I was not to be sharing my thoughts.

[01:10:33] Um- Yep ... so it's really interesting how social media can, can totally kind of get to you. Um, and you have to learn how to, like you say, learn how to not let it into your house.

[01:10:46] Mel: Yeah.

[01:10:46] Sheena: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, well,

[01:10:47] Mel: I've, I've had a, a midwife wrote a blog about me being a racist. Apparently, I was racist. Um, she wrote a whole big thing.

[01:10:56] I read it, and I thought, "Clearly, this woman has her own [01:11:00] personal feelings about racism, and today I am the subject of her feelings." I read it. I didn't respond to it. I didn't share it. Um, to this day, I think there's, you know, uh, no one made any fuss about it. Uh, it completely disappeared because I was like, "Whoa, I feel sad for this woman," instead of, "She's accusing me of racism.

[01:11:28] I'm not a racist. Here are all the ways I'm not racist." I could have listed all the reasons I wasn't and why what I said wasn't racism. Um, instead I kind of let it die in the water, and I never heard anything else. And I think, um- Yeah, it's a lot about what we let in. And the injustice of it feels a lot, 'cause you're like, "That's not me.

[01:11:51] She doesn't know me." And they don't know you, Sheena. That's why they're making these outlandish claims. Um, they're saying things [01:12:00] out of ignorance. And so you can almost sort of go, "Look, I can see that th- these-" Some people are fights looking for somewhere to happen, and if you don't take the bait, the fight just doesn't arise.

[01:12:13] Um, you know, they've kind of lit a match, and they've lit their little bit of kindling, and then if you don't respond, the fire just goes out. Whereas every time you respond to a comment ... And this is the same online. Every time you respond to a comment, you're adding your own little set of kindling to a little fire that someone started, um, and allowing it to continue.

[01:12:34] Whereas online, we have the power to just not respond, and let people sit in their assumptions about us, and know confidently that, that that's not the truth, 'cause we know ourselves and the people close to us know us. Um, and it gives us a chance to reflect too, like, is there some truth to what they've said?

[01:12:54] Um, maybe. But again, you don't have to flesh that out with them. That's all. That's y- um, [01:13:00] um, yourself. Um, yeah. And see, Linda's got the compassion that I don't. I'm just, like, ruthless. She says, "Sheena, I reckon you how difficult this was for you. Um, the work you do in Anna is phenomenal." Thank you. She's right.

[01:13:13] Um, she was ... I'm just like, "Just, uh, just ignore it." But yeah, the emotion of it does come up. Um, but you get better at it, I think, Sheena. Like, uh, and for everybody. The more you, um, have a system for dealing with it, you'll just do it on rote. So for me, I can immediately recognize a comment that could make me spiral and go, "Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna keep coming back to that."

[01:13:38] As soon as I recognize it, I go hiding, deleting, blocking if it was really bad. Like, if they've really s- uh, said a, um, a horrible comment, um, then it's blocked straight away. Um, and once you start getting in the habit, it kind of, um ... It just washes off. Uh, but it does ... It's a, a strategy to [01:14:00] practice. Yeah.

[01:14:03] Um, Sheena says, "Would you consider posting take home points from this session?" Um, I will. When we post the video, I'll post a transcript. Um, we could possibly, again, I don't... I act like I, um, it's sounding like I use AI all the time, but I could 100% put the transcript through AI and say, "Take out the main points of this discussion."

[01:14:24] So you may get a generated one. I w- I don't have, like, a script that I use, so I, um, but I'll share as much as I can.

[01:14:33] Amy: Yeah.

[01:14:34] Mel: Yeah. And thanks for the beautiful comments in the, in the chat, everybody. Um, and the other thing you can help other people online with, for example, if you see somebody else posting a post that you absolutely love and you think should be shared, if you don't know what to say yourself and you see something that's amazing, just share other people's posts.

[01:14:54] Yeah. And change the algorithm like that, and put positive comments on other people's posts. Mm-hmm. [01:15:00] Great point. I was reading this too. Amazing. 'Cause then when people come to the comments, they can see all this positive engagement. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so if you share each other's stuff, if you see something amazing- Mm-hmm

[01:15:11] share that. Don't take the bait with sharing all of the, um, the horror stories. Um, share some of the good stuff. I think

[01:15:19] Sheena: that's a, that's a great thing to do, you know, because it's like in, in, in real life, when you lift other people up, it really does make a difference to change the, the narrative and change the conversation.

[01:15:33] And I, I, I j- I just think absolutely sharing other people's, other sh- other, other people's i- informative posts and positive posts are really, really important. It's great. Really good id- really good strategy. Thank you.

[01:15:48] Mel: Yeah. Beautiful. Did anybody have any questions or comments or ideas? Or constructive feedback.[01:16:00]

[01:16:01] Sheena: Oh, amazing. I

[01:16:02] Anna: suppose I just, I, I put it in the comment a bit, but I did... This thing when someone says, um, something which you kind of know in your heart of heart isn't good faith, um- But, but I, I think I put it earlier as well about that post for the lurkers. Someone says, "You know, how could you say that?"

[01:16:20] And you say, "Well, you know, here's the evidence." Very calm, moral high ground, very sort of, yeah, factual, unemotional response. But I sometimes think, yeah, maybe you're not helping that person who shared something upsetting or you're not gonna win the argument with them. But just kind of coming back and backing yourself up.

[01:16:40] I don't know, um, you know, 'cause that is also adding kindling to their comment. But-

[01:16:45] Mel: Yeah ...

[01:16:45] Anna: someone else has read that comment and gone, "Oh yeah. God, that person's got a good point." Y- you know? And then, yeah, so it's the, it's the readers, it's the lurkers, and sometimes just kind of... Sometimes I do respond, but just quite sort of calmly and factually.

[01:16:59] But I [01:17:00] don't know what your thoughts are about, am I adding kindling or am I-

[01:17:03] Mel: Well,

[01:17:03] Anna: you can ... actually re- adding the

[01:17:06] Mel: narrative? Yeah. I mean, you could. But again, y- is that person coming back to read your comment is the

[01:17:13] Anna: main question. Well, maybe not, but the other readers might.

[01:17:16] Mel: Maybe. The other thing I would suggest is if you wanna add, consider creating another post.

[01:17:23] If you're like, "But actually I have- Mm ... this great information," okay- Mm ... make another post. Mm-hmm. Like, instead of spending your time putting your, like, golden information nuggets buried in the comment section, make another post. Mm. Um, and about making posts, by the way, again, just remember you need to get your message across in seconds.

[01:17:44] Anything with stacks of text, no one's reading it. Mm. If it takes them ages to read it, they're not pausing and reading and looking at every single word. They are scrolling on to something way more entertaining, way more catchy. [01:18:00] Like, you're dealing with toddlers online. Um, you know, it's unfortunately often just has to be shiny, catchy, um, hooky, like tacky market-y style posts.

[01:18:14] Um, and again, I don't think arguments will be won in the comment section. Uh, in terms of how much time it's gonna take you to engage, um, for how much impact it might have, um, I don't know if that's the best place to put your time. Unless, I mean, unless if it's on somebody else's post and there's this huge discussion, and you can see something's gone viral, and there's for and against, and you can see that it's kind of a really political post, and, um, maybe it could do something powerful like have someone take their post down, maybe.

[01:18:48] But again, no one is looking at back posts. Once something's been posted, it's out there, and, um, it's had its impact. Probably it's a, a storm in a teacup, [01:19:00] and then the next day it's gone. Um, so yeah, just careful with how much time you invest. Um, Amy, go ahead. You've got your hand up, very politely.

[01:19:12] Oh, you're just on mute. Yep, gotcha

[01:19:14] Amy: Can you hear me

[01:19:14] Sheena: now?

[01:19:14] Mel: Yep. We can

[01:19:16] Amy: Um, I think actually what we need to remember is that- If we, uh, what we're talking about a lot, I think, is changing the whole narrative, which is relevant, but also we need to be trying to remember that w- a lot of the time the people who are following us are also the women, like you were saying at the beginning.

[01:19:37] And the women mainly don't necessarily understand or are worried about this whole big picture. They just want to know, "Am I gonna be safe?" And all the normal things that they normally are worried about like, "How do I stop being afraid of birth?" Um, you know, "Am I gonna tear? Is my baby gonna be okay?" And so it's also, I think, a case of just pushing [01:20:00] and continuing with the messages that we probably are already saying anyway, um, but just adding in that perhaps little extra subconscious note of safety, which- Yeah

[01:20:11] the rest of the media is, uh, conditioning us to be more negative about at the moment, basically.

[01:20:19] Mel: It's a great point. Exactly. And I think be true to what your... What is the intention of your social media page? If your social media page is all politically driven and you're constantly looking at policy, research, the social landscape of birth, go nuts with this thing because this is ex- this is in your wheelhouse.

[01:20:42] But if you are a birth worker and your brand is that you're sharing information for women, those are the people on your page. And then all of a sudden, if you change tact, stop offering the things that people came to your page for, and start getting politically heavy on the messaging, [01:21:00] uh, like Amy was saying, it, it could inadvertently frighten all the women who are on there.

[01:21:06] Potentially they've not even heard of this report. Um, although it's our echo chamber, this is our current issue, we are, um... I just always remember most people are not interested in the politics of the maternity care system like we are. So it's a huge issue in our world. It's a blip on the media radar for everybody else, and we are dragging it out and prolonging this exposure when maybe our energy could be put into, um, the, a background political work, um, more.

[01:21:45] Yeah. Uh, somebody had their hand up. Was it you, Helena? Yes.

[01:21:49] Helena: Yes. Over there. Hello. Uh, good morning. Hi. My name is, uh, Helena. Can you hear me well?

[01:21:54] Mel: Yes.

[01:21:55] Helena: Fan- fantastic. Yeah. I am a Spanish midwife training in the UK. It's lovely to see so many [01:22:00] friends and colleagues around. I just want to say that, uh, they are not just women, the people who watch our posts.

[01:22:06] There are a lot of midwives. And as a Spanish midwife, people from overseas, they say, "Look, this is happening in the UK. What is going to happen to us?" It's like, u- u- UK is a big- Make a big impact all around Europe and all around the world. Then the self-esteem in our midwifery profession is quite low. Then everything we post, not just for women, but also for midwives, they are like terrified and horrified.

[01:22:36] Then it's very important that we, um, personally I feel really very depressed and very sad for the last three weeks. And keep in mind that they are not just women, that they are newly qualified midwives, midwife from all over the world, and what we said and how we said is going to create an impact on our profession overseas as well.[01:23:00]

[01:23:00] Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Melanie, for your time.

[01:23:03] Mel: That's a great point. It's a really great point, and here's why I think it's, um, helpful to post solutions. 'Cause the media's pushing out problems. If we can post solutions and post messages of hope and truth, so the research on midwifery, the truth in the statistics, um, reframing the, the catchy lies that the media's trying to tell and the, the, the sound bites that they're putting out, reframing them, uh, to change the public messaging, uh, I think it can fill us with more hope, um, help sustain midwives when they can see positive messaging go out and they're like, "That's right.

[01:23:42] That's right. I'm a midwife. This is an evidence-based profession. Um, we are skilled professionals, trained professionals, registered professionals. We are the answer to the world's maternity care problems. The World Health Organization believes that. The ICM has got the research that backs [01:24:00] that." Everything is on our side except this bizarre political campaign.

[01:24:05] So if we just don't shy away from believing in physiology, that's part of our role as a midwife. It's in-built into the ICM definition of a midwife, is the promotion of normal. And this is our skill set. So, you know, we, it, they... We're trying to be bullied into letting go of midwifery, and my encouragement would be to hold onto midwifery as a profession with our physiological ideology as the bedrock.

[01:24:37] And of course, when things are abnormal, we're not proposing that we withhold medical help. That's not the idea. Um- So, yes, right. You wouldn't say to someone, "Your lungs are fine, but this ventilator is safer for you to breathe with." You know, it's, it's ludicrous. So it's okay, [01:25:00] and we've been shamed into believing that an ideology of physiology is wrong, but it's not.

[01:25:06] It's not wrong to have an ideology of physiology, and that was my whole talk at the Radical Midwives Conference. I'm gonna put it up as a podcast soon. Um, but this is going to be how they will get us, is to start shaming midwives who believe in physiology, and this is how they're gonna medicalize childbirth.

[01:25:28] So if we can resist that messaging and say, "Actually, no, I'm not wrong for doing that. Here's all the reasons. We've got all the research. Here's all the reasons we're not wrong for idolizing physiology," um, and, and nip that, um, in the bud. Um, okay. We could talk forever. Um, it's been happening for 122 years.

[01:25:50] Exactly. This is just medicalization- I didn't,

[01:25:53] Sheena: I didn't mean that. I meant 12 years. 12 years.

[01:25:57] Mel: But it has been, Tina, from the very beginning, though. [01:26:00] Uh, from the beginning of 122- Yeah, I know.

[01:26:01] Anna: Yeah, 12,000 years. I don't know.

[01:26:03] Sheena: Yeah, I know, I know. Sorry, I didn't mean- In fact- Yeah, I, I kind of... What, what I was meaning was it's not, can't nip it in the bud.

[01:26:12] It, the bud's already blossomed. It's, it's... It, it should've been nipped in the bud straight away, and we did try. Uh, but what's- Yeah ... good now is more midwives. What... So what's happening now is more midwives are saying, I can see it, they're saying, "No, that can't happen," you know? But the, the per- the people who started it have got a foothold already with politicians, as you know.

[01:26:33] Uh, but we, yeah, we, we keep going. Keep going.

[01:26:36] Mel: Keep going.

[01:26:37] Sheena: This is really helpful.

[01:26:38] Mel: Yeah, we can't run out of steam because everything's on our side. Like, actually every... We, i- all the research, the global organizations, the ICM, everything is on our side except this political campaign. So, um, yeah, don't lose energy.

[01:26:54] Stick together. Share solutions, positivity, and protect, um, [01:27:00] yourself from, um, those haters 'cause they're not there to help you. They're there to harm you, and you can keep them out of your house. Um, I think that is a wrap on this session. Um, thanks for being here, guys. I didn't have to speak to a blank screen.

[01:27:16] I will send you out the recording. Thanks so much.

[01:27:18] Sheena: Thanks for being- Thank you. You're amazing. Thank you, Mel. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Bye, everybody. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Adios, everyone. Bye, everyone. Adios. Bye. Bye. Peace.

Social Media Training with Mel

Ai Generated Text

AI Generated Chapter Marks

AI Generated Summary

AI Generated Transcript

Join Our Free Trial