Episode 119 - What choices did Mel make for her births?
Mel:
[0:00] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Melanie Jackson. I'm a clinical and research midwife with my PhD.
Mel:
[0:08] And each episode, I cast a critical eye over current maternity care practice by grappling with research and historical knowledge to help you get the best out of your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.
Mel:
[0:24] Hello Rebels, Melanie Jackson with you here and the big news this week is that the Great Birth Rebellion podcast has just ticked over to 1 million downloads. 1 million downloads. I don't know really how to celebrate that except to tell you that we hit 1 million downloads and also that we're taking a break from
Mel:
[0:51] normal programming today because I'm going to share my birth stories with you. I was interviewed recently by Anna from Sacred Birth International and she has a podcast called The Natural Birth Podcast and she wanted to ask me about my birth stories. And I thought how better to share with you my birth stories than one that's already been recorded with another co-host because it could get a little bit boring for me to just ramble on about my births. So Anna takes us on the journey of my personal birth stories as we celebrate the one million download mark for the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. I hope you can learn from my story and see where my rebellious roots started and how they were expressed through my own personal births for my two home birthed babes.
Anna:
[1:43] Hi Melanie and welcome to the Natural Birth Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm such a fangirl. I absolutely love and adore the Great Birth Rebellion Podcast. You're doing such amazing work in the world. Such a fan. I mean I send my clients your podcast episodes, you know, concerning them, right? You're so good at making this research this boring stuff that no one has time or energy or want to read accessible to mamas to birth workers I absolutely love and adore what you do in the world thank you for your service thank
Mel:
[2:27] You thank you for indulging in all the episodes and you know podcasts are only meaningful because people listen so yeah I'm grateful that it's out there and
Mel:
[2:38] that people are listening and that the hard work pays off.
Anna:
[2:41] Yes I hear you I hear you it is a big job doing podcasts isn't it and such a pleasure too and you know you are one of the people that I also have as a resource for my secret birth workers in my birth worker mentorship I think that it is like if anyone's listening who is a birth worker like go on and listen to your podcast because you're just keeping that evidence-based up-to-date reach research out there for people and it's amazing how research and evidence-based research really points towards physiology being like the safest for moms and bobs who are healthy normal women right and so anyways today we're not going to be diving into the facts and into the evidence and into the research we are actually going to explore your birth stories which I'm really excited about because I know nothing about them except that they were home births and so with no further ado please take us back to you know becoming pregnant was that a conscious choice or was it a whoopsie daisy here we go
Mel:
[3:51] Yes. So I guess part of the pre-story is also that I was already a midwife and I was already a home birth midwife before I got pregnant. So I worked for four years as a midwife, not having had my own babies and not having been pregnant at all. And so I was 24 when I started midwifery. I know a little baby. And prior to that, I'd done naturopathy. So I was, you know, I was into it I was really keen to learn and and really understand how the body works so both naturopathy and midwifery are modalities and.
Mel:
[4:33] You know, they're qualifications that understand that the body has just a physiology that works in a certain way. And these two ways of being with the body and therapies for the body just support physiology. And so that was my mindset already. And so that led me into being a home birth midwife, which obviously I took through into my health journey and also into my pregnancies and births.
Mel:
[5:00] So fast forward, fast forward, I was doing my PhD, which is called Birthing Outside the System. So I started that when I was 26. And I was 28, nearly finished the PhD, and actually also celebrating my 10 year wedding anniversary. I know. And when we got married at the, you know, very spring chicken age of 18, we didn't really have the money or the time to go on a honeymoon. So we kind of got married and went back to university and carried on with life. And so at our 10 year anniversary, we were both working in our professions and we thought, you know what, it's probably time that we actually stopped for a minute, take a holiday together, relax celebrate the fact that we got married and so we kind of did a 10-year honeymoon.
Mel:
[5:56] And we traveled by car all around Australia and stayed at these beautiful places which we could now afford because we were two health professional or two professionals with no children and so.
Mel:
[6:09] You know when you're childless and you have plenty of time and you're relaxing and you book places with spa baths on the veranda, looking over rainforests, there's not a whole lot more to do except have a lot of sex.
Anna:
[6:23] Yeah.
Mel:
[6:25] And so we just chilled out, hung out together, had sex. We were kind of not too... We were willing to have a baby just whenever it happened. It wasn't for us like we didn't have a time frame in mind.
Mel:
[6:44] My personal, I was quite thin at the time, which I think probably impacted my menstrual cycle. You know, it just how I was built. I didn't intentionally try and be thin or, you know, restrict calories or anything like that. I was just quite active, ate quite healthily, and didn't have a lot of body fat. So, you know, I kind of thought this could take a while. My cycle's not very regular for whatever reason. And so we just kind of started trying to see when it would happen. And I'd say we just got super relaxed and our bodies got the message that we were having some downtime and it was okay to welcome in a baby so that's where we conceived our now 11 year old son Charlie wow probably in a spa bath overlooking a rainforest I'd say it's pretty cool pretty romantic yes and then because I had had the experience of just having irregular periods and never really knowing when they were coming. I didn't really realize I was pregnant until I had very sore boobs and I couldn't, understand it. It was a new thing. I was like, whoa, they're so sore. I can barely touch them. If I'd bumped them, it would be just agony. And I thought, oh, hang on a second. Maybe we are pregnant. So I did a pregnancy test and yes, we were pregnant.
Mel:
[8:12] And at the time we were living with my parents because we were building a house and it was kind of the build had only really just started so we kind of had a plan to stay there for half the year while we were waiting for this build to finish.
Mel:
[8:29] And so, again, as I said, I was a midwife still at uni doing my PhD, still seeing clients as a home birth midwife and trying to build a house while also staying very relaxed and present in my pregnancy. And that pregnancy was at the beginning really frightening because I kept getting these little bleeds. So I would sort of feel a gush and there'd be blood. And then I think oh what was that and the the first time I just thought okay well maybe this is the end of my pregnancy and you know this happens to people but because I was research minded and super interested in the you know the theoretical understanding of this experience what was happening to me I started researching and I discovered that, when about half of the women who are pregnant will have a bleeding episode through their pregnancy at some stage. And I thought, oh, okay, it's, you know, one in two people.
Anna:
[9:37] Wow. I didn't even know that. It's that high.
Mel:
[9:40] Yeah, I didn't either. I didn't, you know, for me, a lot of the women at that time were booking in with me, you know, they were past their 10 or 12 week period. And maybe they'd already, the ones who had experienced that had already experienced it and then you know the ones who hadn't.
Anna:
[9:59] Would that maybe be included like the implantation bleeding then for them
Mel:
[10:04] Potentially yeah this is what my early thinking was was an implantation bleed um and so just this, you know when you start bleeding in pregnancy you start to try and not connect with the baby in case it's not going to stay yeah so I had a little bit of that but then I also had this sense that he was fine that he was actually okay and so it was this really confusing time and actually my grandmother also moved in with with my mum and my dad at that time so it was her and my mum and dad and us all living in the same house and you know I'm from Cyprus and she's Cypriot, so it doesn't speak much English. And.
Mel:
[10:56] She, you know, my mom said to her one day in Greek, oh, you know, Melanie's bleeding. And everybody else around me kind of didn't calm me. But she said, and she's had five babies, she just nodded and she said in English, yes, this is how it is. And I thought, oh, man, that was pretty, that was nice. I felt like I felt calm. And she said, yeah, this is what happens, you know. And that kind of mimicked what I'd read in the research that, you know, 50% of women are going to have a bleed somewhere in their pregnancy. And my grandma, who just, you know, obviously didn't seem to have any fear about this, just kind of went, yeah, yeah, we bleed, you know.
Mel:
[11:45] So that just kind of kept happening for the first 16 weeks. And, you know, I spoke to my midwife about it. We agreed that like you know to over supervise this situation would do nothing you couldn't change anything no no like you know we could have ultrasounds every time there was a bleed and and I did a few times because I was like I just want to know is the baby okay should I be preparing for losing this baby I don't know I want to be able to mentally, prepare myself but that's a really western way of looking at me where you want to make a plan and you want to know what to expect and you know you that we're not comfortable we're just not knowing how my baby is. So, you know, I was grappling with this because I was a home birth midwife, but I also really wanted to know.
Mel:
[12:41] And so, but then I took comfort in knowing also that, so yes, half of the pregnant women will have a bleed.
Mel:
[12:52] But if you do have an ultrasound or you do use a Doppler to find out what your baby's doing and your baby has a heartbeat, only 5% of those babies will be lost to miscarriage. So I was like, you know what? I do want to know if my baby's got a heartbeat right now so that again, I can cognitively and academically place myself in the 5% possibility or the 95% possibility that my baby will be okay. So I did have an ultrasound and he was fine. And they just said, we don't really know where this blood is coming from, but yeah, you're bleeding. It's not from your placenta. It doesn't seem to be from your cervix. So that was enough information for me. I was like, it's not my placenta. It's not my cervix. My baby, you know, medically from what they could tell me was fine. So I was like, great. Okay, carry on. All of that stopped around 16 weeks and but at 16 weeks I had this really profound sense that he was going to be an early baby born before full term.
Mel:
[14:00] I don't know what it was, but I felt profoundly that I knew him. I knew he was a he because that's just what I felt intuitively. I was like, yeah, he's a boy. And then I do feel like he also gave me his name. So right from the beginning, I was like, his name is Charlie and he's so sweet and he's gorgeous and he's fun loving and he's like balanced. Like he just felt full of bliss. It was the only way I could describe it. And later I'll tell you about my other pregnancy where I felt completely different. About her, about her personality, and they have actually rung true to what I felt in the pregnancy.
Mel:
[14:40] So I feel like women do have a knowledge of their baby, a profound knowledge that can't possibly be explained, except that we're really clever and that we do know our babies. Yes. And that kind of knowledge has been illegitimised in today's society. Hear, hear. So, right? But I leaned to it. I was like, I know this kid. I know he's a boy. I know his personality. It's there from the beginning. there's something in him that I know and I knew he was okay but I also felt like he was going to come early either he was telling me or something my body was telling me he's going to be an early baby um and at that time one of our clients was around the same gestation as me and her waters broke 16 17 weeks and I thought whoa that I mean yeah that could happen like that's it's really sad but I was at the same gestation and I was having his thoughts, my baby's going to come early. And I kept saying to him, I said, don't you break your waters too early. I said, you're going to be born at home. So don't break your waters.
Mel:
[15:49] And there was this, I don't know, I repeated that mantra through the pregnancy at various times. Don't break your waters. You're going to be born at home. Don't come too early. We want to have you at home. So the pregnancy continued. Again, I had no other children. I was the master of my own time. The only thing that I couldn't control was when my clients had their babies. So again, I was, you know, keeping busy through the pregnancy. I was exercising, eating well, being very well cared for my parents and my grandma. And, you know, it was a nurtured time. And, I told the builder of the house, you know, we're having this baby at home, so you need to have it finished. By the time my baby is going to be born, I want to move in at like 35 weeks. And he's like, yep, sure, no problem. We'll have it. Absolutely we'll have it done. I think everybody who's ever built a house knows where I'm going with this. Yes.
Anna:
[16:47] Never on time ever in history of buildings.
Mel:
[16:51] Of course we get pregnant and want to have the baby in that space you know he had eight months from when I told him to have the house finished and.
Anna:
[17:03] It never works and never works and never works
Mel:
[17:07] And so we carried on with the pregnancy everything was beautiful I had some repetitive bouts of thrush, which I kind of got on top of with various natural therapies, but it was just this constant kind of, I needed to constantly take probiotics and all the fermented foods. I really limited any sweet foods and carbohydrates. Like I just was trying to keep it under control. And, you know, pregnancy is just a ripe time to have flora imbalance in your vagina. It's It's just like sometimes part of people's pregnancy. And I learned later that it was a really significant part of my mum's own pregnancy. And so there was some kind of inbuilt microbiome imbalance that just plagued this pregnancy despite all my efforts and knowledge as both a naturopath and a midwife. I'm like, why is this happening? So it was just a process of staying on top of that. But otherwise, really uncomplicated pregnancy.
Mel:
[18:17] And I told my midwife, you know, I think this baby's going to come early. How do you feel about that? You know, if I go into labour at 36 weeks, you know, I'm planning on still staying at home. She said, oh, Mel, first-time baby's never come early. Like, you know, she kind of brushed it off a little bit, which was fine. I was like, you know what, I'm ready. I know that if I go into labour at 36 weeks, she'll be ready. I just wanted to check with her, like, how comfortable would you be to come? I was having a preterm baby and, Hang on, my husband's just coming into the office. You can cut this little bit out. Sorry, I can hear the background noise. Okay. Sorry.
Anna:
[19:09] That's all right.
Mel:
[19:12] And so, yeah, it went on. And we moved into the house at 35 weeks. It was not finished at all. And I had given the and as we realized it was not finished I'd given the builder instructions of which parts to finish basically the parts that were most important for birth so I said I just want the bathroom and this bedroom and you know some basics in the kitchen we need to have the water attached and we had a fireplace so we could keep the house warm we had well no we didn't have air conditioning which was fine because we live here in the Blue Mountains in New South Wales in Australia and it gets quite cold and it was March so it was coming into the colder season so we were okay for air conditioning we weren't going to get too hot we could definitely keep ourselves warm we could you know there was water and we were sheltered but the gas wasn't attached and the hot water was gas and so we were trying to get hot water to the house and having cold showers at that time anyway so we moved in 35 weeks and then 36 weeks and two days I started feeling tightenings.
Mel:
[20:31] And we didn't really have much in the house I'd set up our bedroom there was again some basics in the kitchen I'd set up a room for midwives to sleep in that was the only purpose for that room was a midwife sleeping room.
Mel:
[20:45] And my husband woke up to go to the gym and I said, and I had been contracting through the night just really mildly. Oh, I forgot a great part of the story actually. Let me go back.
Mel:
[21:00] My friend who lived in India was also pregnant. And she called me the night before I went into labour and she said, Mel, I'm in India, my waters have broken but I haven't gone into labour. She's like, I'm really frightened that I won't go into labor. And then I'm here in India and my waters will be broken and I can't go to one of the Indian hospitals. They're just terrible. She was planning her birth at this birth center. And she said, you know, I don't want to go into the Indian hospital. So she rang me. She's like, Mel, just pray for me. Pray that this is all going to start. And so as I was going to sleep, I was praying for my friend that her labor would start and that she would have her baby without any complications and then in the middle of the night when I woke with my own contractions I thought oh this is just a reminder to pray for my friend and so I thought for her and I was like oh yeah that's right she's in labor she's in India no water's broken so I just woke again prayed for her again and my contractions continued and then when my husband woke up I said to him oh just so you know like I'm having some contractions and And I don't know if this is the start of anything, but he said, oh, should I go to the gym? Is it okay? I was like, yeah, yeah, go to the gym. I mean, it's only just started. It's not like I'm going to have a baby soon.
Mel:
[22:25] And while he was at the gym, the sun was coming up and I just felt sort of the contractions really starting to take over and intensify. And I thought it could just be a little peak in contraction surges, you know, in intensity or I don't know, maybe things are really going fast. And so I called him. I said, I think you should come back from the gym. Things have just gotten a bit more intense. And he said, should I call the midwives? I was like, no, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't. I don't want to call them too early. That seems a bit, you know, over the top. It's my first baby.
Mel:
[23:04] And so a few more hours and I said yeah yeah maybe yeah call the midwives just tell them it's sort of started and I don't know it feels like they're close together so one of my midwives actually lived down the road she was close and so she popped in and I said to her I don't know what's going on I I don't know if it's really close I didn't I can't really work it out so she said I'll just hang around for a bit so she hung around and then she goes yeah yeah I think you know things are really picking up your contractions are really regular I mean I am going to call the other the second midwife to come yeah and I thought well maybe I am closer than I thought you know I was feeling fine they just had started to pick up so then both of them were there but, then the labor just went on and on and on and there were periods where it stopped, and you know I thought maybe I need to eat maybe I need to rest maybe I need to hydrate so by that evening the first midwife who lives close by she went back home to her family, the other one tucked into bed she lives a bit further away thinking oh well maybe in the.
Mel:
[24:25] So I had also invited my good friend and my sister to be there at the birth periodically just for support and love and, you know. And so things went on through the night and people were kind of up and down sleeping and resting and waking and supporting and was doing some laps around the house.
Mel:
[24:47] And at one point they said, we can fill the bath for you, but I knew that there was no hot water. I say don't don't fill the bath honestly there's no hot water there's no gas it's all cold water and they said no we're gonna do it so they boiled kettles and the urn and they got camp stoves out and put pots on the camp stoves and there were just apparatus everywhere heating water and so they managed to fill the bath with enough hot water for it to be comfortable so at one point I got in there for a rest to just like chill out and while I was doing that they thought you know what let's fill the birth pool like let's get the whole birth pool full of warm water for her so she doesn't have to stay in this uncomfortable little narrow bath and again I was like don't do that that's crazy that's a massive birth pool the inflatable birth pool that's huge there's no hot water they did though back and forth and back and forth with the urn and the kettle and this And I just kept contracting and it went on and on.
Mel:
[25:54] And then the sun came up the next day. So we're kind of looking at 24 hours or so.
Mel:
[26:01] And... I said to the midwife, like, he was still there, sweetheart was still there. And I said, maybe you could check me to find out what's going on. Like, these contractions are back and forth and they're not really doing anything.
Anna:
[26:18] Had you not had one the whole kind of 24 hours? You hadn't had a vaginal examination?
Mel:
[26:23] No, I hadn't had any. It wasn't our usual practice, even as home birth midwives. I wasn't in the habit of it of doing vaginal exams routinely so I didn't know idea where we're up to we were all just kind of waiting seeing what would happen and that was early in the morning and she said okay you're seven centimeters like great you know 24 hours seven centimeters not a bad effort I'm I'm encouraged by that I.
Anna:
[26:54] Love that so much and I love like I just want to pause there and go like for everyone listening like listen to this like
Mel:
[27:00] She's this is a midwife she's encouraged because.
Anna:
[27:04] This is the thing isn't it the the risk of vaginal examinations and so many women go like oh my god only this i love that you have a different reaction love that
Mel:
[27:11] Like pin.
Anna:
[27:12] That everyone in your minds for your own labor
Mel:
[27:14] A long way i mean it's such a lot of work that your body's done because there's pre-work that your cervix and your uterus does before you going to labor. And then there's shortening and thinning that happens before you even go into labor sometimes. And then there's the work that the Braxton Hicks are doing on your body. And, laborer and mom, your cervix, it has to open and thin out and it does so much work. So seven centimeters to me was like, all I've got to do is fall over the finish line. It fell at seven centimeters. Like that is the work done. And then as the sun came up, everything stopped.
Anna:
[28:01] Yes. So normal.
Mel:
[28:03] Really normal. You know, melatonin is so important for the activity of oxytocin And in a longer labour, especially with an earlier preterm baby, Your body knows when everybody and every part of your body and your baby needs a rest. Yes. You know. Yes. Yeah. Labeling is a stress on our body in the same way as if you were working hard at a marathon at something physical. The longer you go and the harder your muscles work, they get tired and lactic acid builds up and they just need a time of replenishment.
Anna:
[28:39] And your baby too, especially pre-term baby. like the wisdom let's not forget of the baby like there's a birth dance between you and the baby it's not just you right that's birthing the baby the baby it's birthing itself and I really believe that sometimes those physiological plateaus that you have spoken about in your podcast um also for the baby and sometimes initiated maybe by the baby as well absolutely
Mel:
[29:05] I definitely I I mean, you and your baby are connected, intimately connected on so many levels, even a physical level, we're connected, the baby has implanted itself into your body via its placenta, of course, it's sending you hormonal messages. You know, at the very least, we are intricately linked. And we know when our physiology is ready for labor we know when what to do next and so yeah I had a definitely an earlier baby and earlier babies you know they might experience the stress of labor differently to full-term babies exactly yeah so of course if it's a longer labor my baby might be getting tired with that or stressed with that. So we were blessed with a rest and, And I, at that time, noticed just some pillows on the floor there. And I thought, I'm going to have a little light out. I'm feeling a bit tired. My husband was asleep in the bed. And I fell asleep between the wall and the bed just on a pile of pillows.
Mel:
[30:19] And I didn't know at the time, but everybody else was looking for me for quite a few hours. Not really sure where I'd gone.
Mel:
[30:31] I know they didn't want to come into the bedroom because my husband was asleep they'd have to have come through the door and around the bed to discover where I was because I was down low so for a few hours they were just sort of going where did Mel go she's just gone, And then I emerged from a few hours sleep and still with no contractions thought, do you know what? Maybe just start your day in the same way that you start every day. And for me, I wake hungry and I thought I'm going to have a, I'm going to go downstairs as I normally would. I'm going to have a big breakfast. We all had a big laugh because my husband asked my sister if she would make him a coffee and she went yeah of course she had kind of been responsible for making coffees for everybody all through the the birth which again had just been going now for over 24 hours.
Mel:
[31:25] And she grabbed the decaf coffee jar and he said oh no that's the decaf I'd really like one with caffeine you know I want to be ready to go and she had this look on her face which told us all that for the whole time she'd been making everyone decaf coffee and no one had been caffeinated through that time and so we all had a bit of a laugh and you know I ate a full big breakfast, and then one the other midwife came back who um had gone home to her family overnight you know with some renewed energy for the birth space so that my other midwife could have a good rest. And she said, let's go for a walk. Let's go out onto the street, do some laps, see if we can walk the baby out, get some contractions going. And I was so reluctant. I was tired, physically tired by then, you know, with just sleeplessness. And I was like, I don't want to go. I don't want to walk the streets. I don't want to. And I remember sort just standing there a little bit reluctantly.
Mel:
[32:38] Was protesting and everybody was getting me dressed and putting my hair up for me and someone was putting my shoes on and I thought you're not getting out of this everyone is gonna shove you out the door to get these contractions going and I knew that it was for my own good I knew why they were like we're doing this Mel we're going for a walk we're going to get it going.
Mel:
[33:02] Because remembering now I'm kind of outside really any medical expectations of a normal birth this had been going on for a while we were now having a physiological pause in the labor my baby was preterm you know it doesn't look good if you present to a hospital like this you know and I kept saying I'm not going to hospital I'm not going there's nothing wrong with us my baby heart rate was fine we were checking the heart rate periodically it was fine so went for a walk for about an hour I thought we wouldn't go for a very long one but they kept pushing me to the next hill let's do the next hill let's do the next hill and I finally lost it when I said to my husband I need to do a wee I'm busting to do a wee and he's like just just squat behind that bush over there like I was like are you kidding me I've been in labor for all this time and now I need to do a wee and I just want to go and do it in the toilet how dare you how dare you suggest that I wee in the street at this moment so I kind of stormed home and I had two heat packs on the side of my belly because my ligaments were sore uterine ligaments were sore and I had been holding these heat packs on while I was walking the streets we've got a photo of it actually of my midwife with her arm linked under one of my arms just kind of dragging me out the hill and me holding the heat packs.
Mel:
[34:30] And we got back home and, again, we were in the afternoon. It was coming up to, like, 2 or 3 o'clock, no contractions. And we were all just kind of standing around going, well, what do we do? What are we going to do? There's no contractions. And I said to my midwife, I was like, check again, check what my cervix is doing. So this was probably maybe six or seven hours after the first vaginal exam.
Mel:
[34:58] And I remember I was sitting on the toilet and she did the vaginal exam she's like huh you're fully dilated you're fully dilated and I started crying because I was like right we are really really close this is coming to an end you know but we still had the problem where there was just no contractions so how is this baby going to come out and so one of the midwives said what if we get um what if we get an acupuncturist out here I was like yeah great I mean if you can find someone who's available and willing to come out absolutely I mean we're going to try everything here because I'm not going to hospital I know what they're going to do there I'm going to get there they'll break my waters they'll give me oxytocin then when my preterm baby is born he's going to be small he's going to be preterm they are going to want to get him off to special care unit there's all kinds of protocols that occur around these scenarios you know I didn't have a GBS swab I didn't have gestational diabetes testing I didn't have all the things that they would have expected of me. I knew the battle that I would be putting myself in. And I was like, we're 10 centimetres. Surely we can do the rest here. We can work this out.
Mel:
[36:20] So the acupuncturist came and she said, you know, she basically kind of, she checked my pulse. She did all of her things that they check.
Mel:
[36:30] And she said, I'm going to work at bringing the baby down low now. You're fully dilated. Let's bring the baby down low into your pelvis. Yep, great. Not feeling any pressure to push. We need.
Anna:
[36:42] The head was still high. That's why you didn't have that urge. Yeah.
Mel:
[36:48] Correct. No urge. Just fully dilated, sort of standing there going, what do we do now? You know we actually you know it appeared as though I'd been fully dilated for a while uh you know when I looked at the notes actually again all the timings get very vague as you retell your story but from the notes I recall that from the time that they knew I was fully dilated, to the time I had my baby was about eight hours wow yeah so you know in hospital if you're fully dilated they just assume okay you're ready to push you're ready to have your baby and.
Anna:
[37:26] They make you push yeah
Mel:
[37:27] You push this idea of being fully dilated, and not having a baby is quite foreign even to me you know and I was looking at the midwives we were all three of us home birth midwives and I was like have you ever seen this before and they're like nope have not seen this before so okay okay we're all just doing something new here yeah so the variation.
Anna:
[37:52] Of normal right I mean I love this because this is how we learn like there's so many variations of normal that you never see in the hospital you never see it because it's just managed because it's seen as pathological where it's not and I love this story so much I love that there's three home birth midwives go like I've never seen this
Mel:
[38:09] We're in new.
Anna:
[38:10] Terrain and like you just go with it I love that so much so much wisdom
Mel:
[38:14] Yeah but I mean we can also look we go yeah this is new but it's not pathological because we've got things that we can use to work out if we're now moving into a stage of pathology. And my blood pressure was normal. I was well hydrated. I could still wee. You know, I was eating. My baby's heart rate was normal. The waters weren't broken. There was nothing to trigger us to even think, gosh, maybe we should go to hospital because yeah everything just seemed normal despite the fact that it was just taking ages and we were fully dilated with no urge to do anything so we thought great let's get this acupuncturist in we were also thinking you know this baby is young it's it's pre-term there will be a point where he runs out of energy and we would love for him to be born before that happens.
Mel:
[39:14] And so she put the acupuncture needles sort of over my tailbone and lower back, and I felt her kind of put them in and then take them out and move them down and repeat this action with a few different positions. And then in a minute or two, I just went, whoa, like let out this incredible primal noise as I felt my baby slip down and like clunk into my pelvis. With whatever she did wow yeah and I was like oh yeah he like he moved down and she went great now let's get your contractions going so she repositioned the needles and from the minute they were in their new positions the contractions just started it was pretty instantaneous from what I experienced. It wasn't like we tried this and tried that and tried this and finally something worked. It just worked. And this was an acupuncturist that, you know, I came to understand was exceptionally good at her job because, you know, she became our family acupuncturist after that and she's a genius.
Mel:
[40:35] And so this happened, okay, contractions are back. She would tweak the needles every few minutes and I'd get another big contraction another big surge and so then I moved I started moving about I went back onto the toilet here and there and here and there and then at one point I was sitting on the toilet and I could hear my midwife and the acupuncturist kind of chatting out out in the foyer outside the bathroom and, And the acupuncturist came in and she goes, so I want to put a needle in your perineum. So for anybody listening, your perineum is the space of tissue that sits between your anus and the vaginal opening. Horrified?
Mel:
[41:27] Well, I remember just kind of looking at her and thinking, I don't think I have a choice here. Yes. you know we are trying things to get this baby out I want the baby out, it's time I know that the reason she's here is to remedy, this pause that to me does not feel like I want to continue anymore so I was like you don't have a choice if you want to have this baby it's either a acupuncture needle to the perineum or you go to hospital and accept whatever it is that they're going to offer you, so I was like mate I mean what do we have to lose I can either wait and keep doing this or I can try the perineum acupuncture needle so then so I just remember looking at her a bit blankly while I tried to gather up the brain cells to make this decision and my midwife came to the door and she just yelled out, do it, Mel.
Mel:
[42:28] And that was all I needed. That was, you know, all I needed to make the decision. I was like, okay, let's do it. So I went ahead, positioned myself on the bed. She found my perineum and she said, it'll just be an in-out needle in the perineum. I was like, okay, let's do it. So in-out, in-out the perineal needle went. And there was another big shift in the labour process. And so... And then I said to my midwife, like, we were contracting and contracting and contracting now with the needles, but I said, well, what are we going to do? I don't even feel like pushing. I don't have any urge whatsoever.
Mel:
[43:12] She was like, I don't know, maybe, you know, again, we're all working with just unknown terrain here. She's like, maybe you just start pushing. Maybe just, like, try. I was like, yeah, that sounds like a good use of energy right now. I mean, again, what other choice do I have right now? So we got the birth stool out and I just started bearing down and pushing hoping that it would do something and it did so out started bulging what I thought was the baby's head my baby's head, and we're like great yeah it's working like let's just keep doing this and I was coming up and down off the birth stool and I was moving a bit and repositioning and then back onto the birth stool, and everyone was there really excited you know cameras are out like yeah we can see the head And then my waters just burst everywhere, like explosive, like Hollywood style labor, water bursting.
Mel:
[44:11] And I was like, great, you know, in my world, when the water breaks, the baby's not far behind and cool, we're going to have a baby.
Mel:
[44:19] So then I started pushing again and there was nothing, no head, nothing coming out. And it became pretty obvious that what was coming was just the bag of waters that I'd sort of forced out of my body. But we kept going and I kept pushing and the baby did start to emerge and it wasn't really until he was almost fully crowning that the physiological urge to push really took over. I was sort of at full stretch and I remember getting to full stretch and thinking ah pretty sure I'm at full stretch it's not that bad you know just in my head going okay yeah that's just what it feels like it doesn't I feel like I'm at full stretch, but I wouldn't describe it as painful.
Mel:
[45:09] Or uncomfortable, really, just I'm stretching. So that was cool. I was like, yeah, not that bad. People sometimes talk about it as the ring of fire, but I was like, it's not a ring of fire. It just feels like I'm at full stretch. So then a few more pushes and he was out on the, I was sitting on the birth stool and we have this picture of myself and my husband capturing him and bringing him up to my chest. And he was so little. He was tiny. He cried straight away. He was beautiful and pink. He came straight up to my chest. But immediately I was like, wow, he's really small. And so I got up comfortably on the bed and I knew about preterm babies. I'd mentally been preparing that I was going to have an early baby. And so I'd been learning more about what's called kangaroo care, which is a technique that people use in less resourced countries to care for early babies and babies that are unwell. And the idea is that you just keep them on your skin. And I bought this stretchy, warm, stretchy wrap that I could wear. That would mean that he didn't need to leave. I could kind of be hands-free in a way and he would still be able to be nestled on my chest.
Mel:
[46:35] And we know about kangaroo care that actually your body can sense the temperature of your baby and adjust the temperature of your chest to regulate the baby's temperature.
Mel:
[46:47] And, you know, with preterm babies, they haven't got a lot of the brown fat that normally full-term babies would have, and this is what they use to keep them warm. They use it for their early energy supply before their mum's milk fully comes in. They're supposed to put that brown fat on and then use it up as energy over the first few days you know it's why babies lose weight in the first few days usually is that they come with a packed lunch and with enough food you know to survive until their mother's milk fully comes in so I knew he doesn't have that he doesn't have any energy reserves to keep himself warm to keep his blood sugar up and if a baby gets cold and their blood sugar drops the next thing that happens is that they struggle with great breathing with respiration so immediately I was like right I know what this baby needs he's little he's preterm he needs to keep his blood sugar up he needs to keep warm if I'm going to be able to ensure that his respiration doesn't suffer yeah so he was beautiful he actually latched onto the breast and that's another thing with early babies is not always the suck reflex is not always there because that's a later reflex that develops.
Mel:
[48:06] And so I was like, great. First hurdle, he has a suck reflex. You know, he was breathing beautifully. He was lovely and pink. He was functioning like a full, like a normal baby. And then we weighed him and he was 2.3 kilos.
Anna:
[48:21] Yeah.
Mel:
[48:22] And I know you guys might measure in different measure, but here in Australia, if a baby is under 2.5 kilos, they usually just automatically send them to the special care nursery. For while they grow up because they know there's some complications that could happen and they want to observe them there. So my midwife kind of dutifully said, you know, these babies would normally be nursed in the special care unit at hospital. Would you like to take him to hospital? She knew what I was going to say, obviously, but, you know, for our documentation, we need to kind to report. Yeah, I advised my client that maybe she should take this baby to hospital and she declined. So yes, I was like, you know what, I can look after him. I can do this. And so we hand expressed a little bit of milk out just in case he didn't feed regularly. And.
Mel:
[49:23] And I thought, at least I know that I could top him up with some breast milk if he, you know, has trouble latching. So we did that. We put that in the fridge. And my placenta, when, you know, I got into bed and I was caring for him. And then the contraction started again for my placenta. And I just immediately said to the midwife, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do the placenta it's like I'm so tired and you know the contractions had stopped and it had been so long I don't want to I just I don't want to and that's how I said that to everybody I don't want to do that and luckily the acupuncturist was still there and they gave me a big strong cup of, tea of raspberry leaf tea and then the midwife said to the acupuncturist if you gotta can you get it out you know like is there a spot and the acupuncturist went yeah I can get it out so she popped a needle in and and I just went like again another kind of really primal noise and out plopped the placenta and that was done. And I was like, ah, okay, we did it. But now after something like 36 hours of labour.
Mel:
[50:51] It was the evening. The sun had gone back down again. So, you know, everybody else was sort of finishing up their jobs and then they were going to go home to bed, which made total perfect sense. But my work had just started because I had a preterm baby that I was going to nurse at home through the night. You know, it was just me and my husband. He was going to need a sleep for sure. And there's nobody who could replace the care that my baby needed, my little Charlie, my little 2.3-kilo Charlie needed. And so I just rallied. I was like, Radio, you know, now you have to feed your baby. In my head, I was like, he needs to be fed every hour. So I kind of was very alert through the night. And obviously I must have dozed at some point but my whole like I was just completely focused on.
Mel:
[51:57] On caring for him. So he slept on my chest. Again, he latched multiple times through the night and had a feed. I did give him some of the expressed colostrum at one point, probably maybe just as a insurance policy. I don't know if he actually needed it, but I was like, just give it to him, you know, it won't hurt. And, um, and he was great. He never skipped a beat. I was never worried for him he he was fine and actually labor prepares babies for life as well having been through labor with contractions he got the message over and over and over again that he was about to be born and there was enough time from the very first early contractions for his body to start responding to being able to breathe air yes so I think that he needed that long labor yeah I I didn't need the long labor.
Mel:
[52:57] But maybe he did. And, you know, that's a wisdom that we don't, we won't ever know why that had to happen. But he was well, he gained weight. In fact, he gained half a kilo in the second week of his life. So, and he thrived, he did get jaundice. But again, we just did some sun exposure for him, periodic sun exposure. And he kept feeding and he was well through all that. So we didn't do anything about the jaundice other than what we were, you know, already doing. And he was beautiful and fine.
Mel:
[53:31] So that was early.
Anna:
[53:34] I love that. What a birth story full of wisdom and variations of normal. Wow. I love that so much that you did do that care for your own son at home as a preterm baby. With all the wisdom, obviously, you have as a midwife. You knew all the things that was important. But that is just the best care to be on mom it should just be standard I mean it is the superior way than like mimicking mom in the you know in the incubators of little babies in the NICU or special care nursery right yes so much yeah so
Mel:
[54:19] You know and then he fed for ages probably about two and a half years until Yeah. We started to I thought well I wouldn't mind having another baby and so I decided to night wean him because again my cycle hadn't returned yet and around that time um I was offered I had finished oh that's right I was still in the middle of my well at the end of my PhD and so all through his early early years he would live in the carrier while I was trying to finish my writing and I'd take him along to conferences. You know, there were times where I presented to huge rooms of people with my baby in the carrier. And at the time, I also got offered a lecturing job as a midwifery lecturer.
Mel:
[55:10] And I said, you know, I've got a four-month-old baby, right? And they said, yeah, we just expected that you would bring him. And I was like, great, that sounds great. So I accepted a job as a university lecturer while I was finishing my PhD and looking after this baby and everybody around me was so supportive you know the uni said yep bring him I would pick my mum up on the way to the university lecturing job and she would sit with Charlie while I lectured and she would just bring him to me if he needed a feed and if he if she couldn't get him to sleep or something and that's how it was and so then soon after that uh as he grew and I graduated from my PhD I was offered an opportunity to work for the Australian College of Midwives on some on a project they're working on and it was around that time where I thought oh maybe I could have another baby I was like no just delay it till after you finish this contract it was a nine-month contract I was like there's no way I was traveling all over the place there's no way I can have a baby and travel and you know no so I finished that contract. And I was like, right, I'm ready to have the baby now.
Mel:
[56:22] But, again, still my cycle hadn't really regulated itself, which I wasn't too bothered by because I wasn't trying to have a baby earlier than that. But then, you know, it was more regular but a bit long, I thought. I was like, well, it's a bit long. I don't know that this is a good cycle to conceive on. So I went back to my acupuncturist who had helped me have Charlie and I said to her, I'd like to have another baby, but I'm pretty sure my cycle, like my, the whole cycle's not quite synced up properly. She's like, right, here's what we're going to do. Come, she said, have a period. And then she gave me a schedule of which days I was to visit her based on a menstrual cycle. So we kind of started after the first day bleed of my cycle and she, and I visited her incrementally. So then we knew roughly the period of where I was fertile and so you know she'd do something on that day and okay off we go have all the sex and then and I'd go back to her and we do things and then.
Mel:
[57:31] I again just want to reiterate the wisdom and intuitive knowledge that we have in our bodies as women to know what's happening in our bodies.
Mel:
[57:42] And so there was one day where I said to my husband, pretty sure that that conception attempt worked. Like I feel like that did the trick.
Mel:
[57:57] And about a week later after that I went back to the acupuncturist and she said, well, how are you feeling? What are you thinking? I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant. It all feels really right. It all feels like different. Something is definitely going on in my body. And she's like, okay, great. So she did another treatment. And then again, a few days later, I went back and she's like, how are you feeling? And I was like, yeah, still really strong, still feeling really certain that I'm pregnant. And we did a pregnancy test and it just it said, no, you're not pregnant. I was like, that's crazy. I don't I don't believe that. And she checked my pulse. You know, acupuncturists have this way of working with the body.
Mel:
[58:45] And partly they can learn things from your pulse.
Mel:
[58:49] And she said, I can feel it. I can feel the baby. You are pregnant. And I was like, I knew that. I knew I was pregnant. And the test just hadn't picked it up, which is fine. I kept testing. It kept saying negative. And then one day we were all, myself, my husband, and my son, Charlie, getting ready to go into the city to see this art exhibition from one of my favourite artists, Frida Kahlo and I said to my husband oh my gosh I just can't shake this feeling that I am pregnant again I did another test negative we went to the exhibit we enjoyed the exhibit we looked at all the works and then the next day I tested again and it was like yes you are pregnant I was like right this is baby Frida she's definitely here uh you know I'd already felt her I just felt like I needed that confirmation from that pregnancy test uh so immediately I was like she's a girl.
Mel:
[59:52] And I felt strongly what her personality was again she was fiery um like Frida I described her as a little bit dark like different energy to Charlie who was really light and joyful and just easygoing she felt like a force that I'm going to need to.
Mel:
[1:00:22] Manage in some way but also not you know she's seven now Frida is definitely a Frida and so her pregnancy was completely different I'm curious.
Anna:
[1:00:34] Before we go on though like when did your pregnancy test pick up that you were pregnant A what day, a week, or whatever?
Mel:
[1:00:42] It was, I can't remember so much. It was well after the two weeks that they normally say.
Anna:
[1:00:52] Yeah.
Mel:
[1:00:52] Memory. But I just also didn't really believe any of the negative tests.
Anna:
[1:00:59] Yeah.
Mel:
[1:01:00] There's no way. I'm so pregnant. Yeah. 100% pregnant. And so, you know, yeah. I don't know when. I can't remember when. I've still got the little pregnancy test. Do you? That's so cute. I know. Three little pregnancy tests in that box. And then. I vomited all the way through till about 17 weeks with her.
Anna:
[1:01:28] Oh, was that different?
Mel:
[1:01:29] It was different. With Charlie, I felt nauseous a lot and I kind of managed it by managing my blood sugar levels. I felt that with him, if I just didn't get too hungry and I snacked often, that was enough to feel a little bit normal. With Frida, it was overwhelming. I just never knew when I was about to vomit I felt constantly like I was going to vomit.
Mel:
[1:01:57] And I didn't know when it was coming just persistent nausea and again I went back to my acupuncturist almost every second or third day just to get some relief from the nausea.
Mel:
[1:02:10] And with her I vomited more often just all kinds of places you know on the streets in pot plants wherever I was you know there was people always coming up to me are you okay I'm like I'm pregnant and I just it would just be this weird just never knew when it was going to come out you know I was at a cafe once and somebody walked past with a plate of food and just the smell of it triggered I had to run out of the cafe and find somewhere socially appropriate to vomit and again I was still seeing clients so I remember coming in and out of births and just having to vomit and then coming back in and it's just this I ended up making these little vomit packs which had, a vomit bag and some tissues and some water and a snack in them so I would just if I needed to vomit I was like okay get the vomit pack out um so we just continued we were really you know women kind of just stoic and strong with that and you know I'd vomit a few times a day and just, have a drink and get on with it and my little son Charlie who was three at this time when I was vomiting he would just come up to me and stand next to me and hold my hand.
Mel:
[1:03:28] And one day I was vomiting and he said, I don't think I want to watch you vomit anymore. And I was like, you don't have to, you don't have to. It's been very kind of you to sit with me while I have been vomiting, but you don't have to.
Mel:
[1:03:45] So, yeah, it wasn't too debilitating. I kind of just got on with it as I do. Yeah um again I thought we're gonna have an early baby that's just maybe how I do it my mom had early babies as well early baby and I thought then I had one I was like well this just must be how we have babies so I was just preparing for another 36 or 37 week up quite happy that that might occur I didn't have the bleeds this time and I also didn't have the thrush I managed to really get on top of that with I ended up using.
Mel:
[1:04:30] Sort of vaginal probiotic suppositories which did the trick it wasn't consistent but it was just like this maintenance process and so I got to 37 weeks and I thought where's the baby, why is the baby coming out and she moved really differently to Charlie Charlie just was always sending me messages that he was fine Frida had just she was so sluggish like not interested in performing not interested in giving me any information about how she was I I felt like she was just using me for my uterus like I said it to my husband multiple times like the minute she's born she is just gonna be her own person I feel like she doesn't really need me she just is like this child who sort of knows she needs to grow within a woman in order to be alive and then she's going to be her own person so I felt that and uh yes she was Frida so we named her Frida before she was born just knowing how who she might be and then 37 weeks came and 38 and 39.
Mel:
[1:05:48] And 40. And I kept saying to my midwife, where's the baby? What is going on? And she's like, no, it's just as normal. It's just a normal gestation. I was like, yeah, but I thought you would be born at 37 weeks. So at 40 weeks, I kind of gave up even thinking I was ever going to have a baby. And I said to my husband, let's just go out into the bush, go for a big walk, So we went bushwalking and we played in puddles and we played in this river and then I went to a restaurant and ate this massive bowl of food. Like I just had kind of given up, just doing whatever I wanted to. I was like, I'm just going to do whatever I want. I'm going to eat that. I'm going to walk there. I didn't care.
Mel:
[1:06:35] And that night my mum, who was going to come to support me at the birth at my next planned home birth because we had Charlie now so I wanted her to be there for him she rang me and she said um our car broke down and so I don't have a car to be able to come to you if you go into labor and I was like oh no this is terrible so she her and my dad and somebody else drove them into the house I said come and get our second car we had two cars I said come and get the second car and then you'll have a car so they came up and I said we'll order some nice dinner and you know I'm done with caring we're gonna order dinner in and you guys come up and we'll you can take our car and so they came and while we were eating dinner I started to get contractions, I know so I didn't say anything I thought no I'm never having a baby it's nothing.
Mel:
[1:07:35] So we were just eating our dinner it's probably about six o'clock and they didn't really stop they kept going and around seven o'clock my mum said oh well you know we'll head home I didn't tell anybody at that point I didn't know what was going on I just was denying it and then she said you know we'll head home and now we're all fine the we've got the car and I said actually do you want to just stay for a bit maybe I sent my dad home with the car I said could you stay for a bit I don't know what's happening but I think something's starting and maybe just stay and put Charlie to bed for us you know so we can maybe get the birth space ready that was about seven and around 7 30 I was upstairs trying to give my mum instructions on where his pajamas were and you know what we normally do to brush his teeth and you know which book was his favorite for bedtime and and I was holding on to the door frame I had to take breaks for how strong the contractions were and I thought and I just remember going oh forget it just have a look you'll find everything and I went on into my bedroom assuming she was just going to look after him because I I couldn't get a sentence together enough to explain his bedtime routine to her.
Mel:
[1:08:59] And so I went into the bedroom and things just kind of really kicked in and started really strong. Stronger contractions than I'd ever felt through any part of Charlie's labor.
Mel:
[1:09:11] And I texted my sister at about 8 o'clock, 8 p.m. And I said, I think maybe I'm in labor, but I'm not entirely sure. Just kind of a heads up. That was 8pm and Frida was born at 10.30pm that same night.
Mel:
[1:09:32] So things just started and progressed and just went like a steam train. At one point, Charlie came in and I was on the floor. We had wooden floorboards, so it was quite hard. I was just down on my knees on the floor. And he said, Mama, you're going to get sore knees. And he raced off and he grabbed all these towels from the linen cupboard and started stuffing them under my knees while I was in the middle of a contraction. It was the sweetest thing ever wow and then yeah and then he sat on the chair in my bedroom, and just watched for maybe four or five contractions and then he said I'm gonna go to bed now so you know it was just a regular day as far as he was concerned you know he'd nurtured me through my vomiting and now he sort of watched a bit of labor and went okay I'll see you in the morning we knew he didn't want to be woken up for the birth because I'd talked to him about it I I was like, do you want to see Frida be born?
Mel:
[1:10:32] He said, yeah, I'll watch if I'm awake, but don't wake me up. I don't want to be awoken. So I double-checked with him, still the same. He's like, don't wake me. Cool, no worries.
Mel:
[1:10:45] So I was reluctant to ring the midwives because of what happened last time. And so we got to 9 o'clock and my husband was like, do you think we should call the midwives? I was like no last time we called them too early and it took ages and just don't call them because I don't want to inconvenience everybody like that again, and then little did I know probably 20 minutes after I said that he just took it upon himself to call the midwives because he kind of knew what was going on, And so one of them arrived and went, well, yeah, you are having a baby, man. So she called the second midwife and they quickly started getting the pool filled. And because I was planning a water birth again this time, I didn't have Charlie in the water in the end.
Mel:
[1:11:42] And I was kind of like, when is it full? Because, oh, I am really getting ready to have this baby. And I got in and there was just no gaps. there was these really short gaps enough for me to kind of just have a few breaths and then another one would start coming and I looked at the clock one time and I said by 11 p.m I was sort of getting angry with the process I said I'm going to be in my bed by 11 p.m like there's no way this could continue any longer because of how strong it was and so it was strong because it was just working really fast and I was so excited to be in labor because I was done with being pregnant I did not enjoy the pregnancy much I felt really physically incapacitated I couldn't garden I had rib pains I couldn't crochet two of the things that I usually did to really decompress and relax, and so I was done I was like I can't wait to just be able to use my body in
Mel:
[1:12:42] the way that I want to use my body. And so then I started to feel this physiological urge to push that I hadn't had with Charlie. And I.
Mel:
[1:12:52] It was overwhelming and I just surrendered to it. I was like, thank you. I have to put no effort into this right now because I did not want to push like I did last time. And she started to, I could feel her move down and I put my own finger inside to sort of see if I could feel her head. And I could, about sort of two-thirds of my finger could go in before I felt the baby. And then again I had another big push and I kind of poked around again And again, it was like one third of my finger I could feel. I was like, wow, that's really, that's really moving down. And then the next contraction, I felt her head put pressure on my perineum and I started to stretch again. And the feeling was familiar because I remember it with Charlie. And I thought, ah, we're at full stretch again. Again, it's not that bad. I was like, oh, that's, yeah, okay, cool. We're at full stretch. And then something overwhelmed my body and I started hysterically laughing. Hysterical, like a madwoman.
Mel:
[1:13:58] And I remember thinking I could suppress it, but it felt so good to laugh. And so I kind of made a conscious effort to not suppress that feeling. And I laughed in the way that I felt like laughing. And then I heard one midwife say to the other, what's she doing? It kind of looked really hysterical. You know, just kind of, well, I hate that word hysterical. Sorry for using that. But just like a really like exaggerated laugh that I couldn't control and so and I just said oh my gosh I'm just so happy and this was just the point where my baby's head was nearly born so I'm floating in a pool just laughing hysterically at full stretch ready for my baby to come out and so her head was fully born and I was like right next contraction we're having this baby, So I had the next contraction, but there was no urge to push her out. And I thought, oh, that's weird because, like, I felt really strong urges to get her head out, and that felt really easy for her head to come out, but there was no inspiration from my body to push her body out. And I just thought, oh, that doesn't feel right to me. I feel like my body should want to push the rest of the baby out.
Mel:
[1:15:25] And I just said to my midwife, all I could get out was get her out. Like I just instinctively said, I want you to get the baby out. And so she put her hand in to feel for the shoulder and went, oh, yeah, you know, the shoulder's a bit lodged there. And with the next contraction just kind of did a little bit of an internal shoulder dystocia maneuver to bring the baby out. I didn't feel like I had a shoulder dystocia. But it certainly didn't, the baby didn't come with that next contraction. And then also something didn't feel right in my body. I felt like I should have wanted to push her out. Like my body should have wanted to push her out at that point. And so I just said, yeah, do the thing, get the baby out, please. And so she did and she came out and I was so grateful for my midwives in that moment, not because I think that they rescued me from a complicated situation, but that they worked with me, that I sensed that I wanted their help. They didn't question that. They just stepped in. And then...
Mel:
[1:16:38] I brought her to my chest and assumed she was fine and just kind of like took a breath after having the baby. And one of the midwives said, ah, you might want to just talk your baby in, you know, and I looked down and she was quite floppy and unresponsive. And I thought, whoa, I didn't even, I didn't even notice her condition. And as a midwife, that's one of our main jobs, but I should I was not in my midwifery mind no you were.
Anna:
[1:17:07] The birthing woman I think that's also key information like for all birth workers that when you're birthing a baby you're not the midwife or the birth worker like you you can't really do that for yourself you shouldn't and I
Mel:
[1:17:18] Didn't yeah and I didn't want to I I had them both there you know people ask me are you going to have a midwife at your birth I was like yeah it's a big responsibility being a midwife in the birth space Yes, I know what that responsibility is. I know, you know, the things that I want to do. Sort of um oversee so the woman doesn't have to occupy her mind with these things so that she knows I don't have to if I don't want to take responsibility over certain parts of this birth journey I can comfortably put some things in the hands of my midwife and so drop into.
Anna:
[1:18:00] Liminality too and like into that birth bubble otherwise you're in your neocortex having to like think and assess and be logical I mean you need to step out of that to birth a baby
Mel:
[1:18:11] Yeah so I didn't have to think is my baby okay because I knew that all I had to do was bathe in the experience and do what my body was asking me to do and then if there was a problem or something that needed attention that my midwives would notice that I didn't have to bring myself out of any state in order to give myself or my baby attention so it was kind of that moment I went whoa yeah you do need a bit of help so I gave her a little bit of a rub and I breathed on her face because one thing that triggers a baby to breathe is to know that it's in air so they're just kind of accentuating that experience for her and she cried and breathed and pinked up beautifully well within you know normal limits so it was just that she was born a little bit less vigorous than Charlie, but that can also be waterborne babies as well. They just take a little bit more time to come in.
Mel:
[1:19:07] So I don't experience her birth as complicated in any way or as her being compromised. It was all just managed work.
Mel:
[1:19:19] In a really timely way she did not suffer I didn't suffer both births I didn't have any tears even though you know with that second birth there was extra hands in the space I just felt really soft and open for those births and if I had to choose a birth experience again I would definitely choose the hard fast like wild journey of Frida's birth it was less exhausting and you know when Charlie was born I thought oh thank god finally that's over and I cared for him in a really cognitive way because of his needs and because of the length of the labor with Frida it was just like the hormonal cascade felt so much more intense and I really liked it and so so much that I when I was getting out of the birth pool my placenta was still inside and I said to my husband oh my gosh I can't wait to do that again that was the best and he said at that moment he's like what do you mean again it's like you know for the next baby and I was like and he said no that's it there's no more babies I was like what do you have to tell me that right now I haven't even had my placenta yet.
Mel:
[1:20:46] And so I said, let's just talk about that later. And anyway, placenta again was born just fine. I crouched over a bowl and pushed the placenta out. And she was a kilo and a half heavier than Charlie. You know, she was a whole month older. Of course she was. She fed beautifully. Obviously I had no concerns for her, but she was intense in her personality as I had experienced her in utero. And yeah that was Frida completely different to Charlie.
Anna:
[1:21:19] It's amazing how they show you who they are both obviously you could sense it beforehand but through also labor
Mel:
[1:21:28] Yes and I knew they were they were fine through the whole thing I never felt like anyone was in danger and you know birth is usually like that if you leave it alone yeah.
Anna:
[1:21:42] Amazing I love that so much what incredible stories thank you so much now for sharing that with us so much wisdom in them now if you had a first time mama in front of you right now who's about to have her first baby and she really wants to have a natural and empowering birth experience, what advice and pearls of wisdom would you give to her?
Mel:
[1:22:11] The mental work of being ready for labour, it kind of needs to be done beforehand. So we can physically manage labour just fine. We're definitely strong enough. we can do that your body will do it the part of you that won't do it if you don't want it to or if you have some things going on is your mind so people often say oh it's painful it's this it's hard it's you know yeah it's a it's a big day you know it's a hard day sometimes for women, but labor is mostly a mental game I found even through my labor and now as I've been with women for 16 years in birth is that physically their bodies most of the time get there the thing that holds them back and the thing that stops them from having the birth that they were hoping for is usually not a dysfunction in their body it's usually that their mind is.
Mel:
[1:23:18] Takes over sometimes gives up on enduring the process sometimes we have to just really do a really hard thing and and it's this constant self-talk of like okay you did one more amazing so one of the mantras that I had through Charlie's birth was when the contraction went I said to myself you can do another one and so I told myself that after immediately after the contraction went to kind of remind my body and my brain that we could so when I went into the next contraction I kind of almost forgot what the previous contraction was like all I remembered is that I told myself I can do another one so I started to believe it so if you tell yourself that I can do another one and the other mantra was just like it's just a stretch it's just a stretch so as the babies were coming out I didn't get frightened of that sensation I just reminded myself it's just a stretch you know soften and open with that don't don't clench and tighten.
Mel:
[1:24:28] And so it's about checking your own messaging. What are you telling yourself in your mind? Are you saying this is too hard? Oh, my gosh, I can't do it. This is too strong. How long is this going to go for? This is horrible. That hurt. You know, you can say those things a little bit, but if you live there in your labour, it's going to be a really short amount of time before you try and be rescued from that experience through the use of medication. To kind of take it all away because you've told yourself over and over and over, this is too much, you can't do it, this can't go on. So you almost have to fake it till you make it a little bit, even if you don't believe you can do it in that time. Just tell yourself, you know, you can do another one. Say the words in your mind out loud or instead of saying, no, not another contraction, say, yes, another contraction because every contraction you have is a little bit closer to having your baby.
Mel:
[1:25:32] And then further than that, now that you know this, if you're listening to this and you're pregnant, you can mentally prepare yourself to tell yourself those things. But then you can also prepare the people around you to tell you those things. So if you have someone around you who is on board with your plans to have whatever birth it is, and you're in labour and you say, oh, my gosh, it's so sore. I just can't do it. And they say, of course you can. Yes you can you can do another one let's do one more and then when that one's done we're going to do another one together I'm here for you I'm here to support you that can change a woman's mindset and help her go through every single individual contraction the alternative is that you say to your care team you support people oh my gosh it's so sore I can't do it what am I going to do this is too hard and they say yeah well maybe what about just an epidural you know like Like, of course, in that moment, you are going to maybe accept that because what they're saying is, is we don't think you can do it.
Mel:
[1:26:45] We don't think, you know, if this is so big for you and you're asking for pain relief, maybe you should just take it because we don't think you can do this. And so you lose hope in yourself because people around you are kind of sending you subliminal messaging that you can't do this. And so I would really acknowledge that you need to be mentally prepared for labor to talk yourself through it because there will be points in your labor where your mind says to you this is too hard this is too big I can't do it maybe I should have an epidural maybe I should have a cesarean section maybe I should accept this thing and that thing you know I don't know, prepare yourself to be able to talk yourself around that and assist in whatever it is you're planning that would be my advice.
Anna:
[1:27:36] I love that I love that so much I couldn't have said it better myself one thing that I say to my you know clients is you can do anything for a minute to have that as a mantra like I can do anything for a minute you know in a minute's time this will release like I will have a pause so like mantras in labor are so powerful and I love you know that you talk about the mind because it is the biggest hindrance isn't it and one of the biggest reasons why I started this podcast you know to help women reprogram their subconscious mind this birth narrative of fear and medicalization that is so imprinted in all of us like we all need to kind of reprogram ourselves into believing in the body believing in this process believing that and we can do it and without outsourcing to experts outside of ourselves right
Mel:
[1:28:29] And part of that it's it's great if women can do that themselves and then you have to find a care team that matches your intentions so in in anything if you are sitting in a really um a medicalized mindset where you want interventions and and a lot of monitoring and a lot of supervision and all that kind of stuff in your birth for whatever reason if you go ahead and choose a care team that is focused on helping you achieve a physiological birth with no interventions, you there's a mismatch you're going to be dissatisfied and they're not perfectly equipped to help you in your plan.
Mel:
[1:29:12] And it's the same way if you think, I don't want any interventions, I want to have this birth with very minimal intervention, if you know, only what I need, I don't want any pain medication, I don't want any vaginal exams. But then you go ahead and choose to give birth with medical practitioners in a private hospital. Again, there's a mismatch, they're focused on more medicalized approach so firstly it's about understanding what you your own philosophy, preparing yourself for that but then making sure you've surrounded your people surrounded yourself with people who are going to help you achieve the the aim that you have that for your birth so there has to be a match as well so important so important like don't hire.
Anna:
[1:30:03] A surgeon for your natural physiological birth
Mel:
[1:30:07] I mean it doesn't make sense you're gonna fight now for that birth instead of being supported.
Anna:
[1:30:15] Yeah thank you so much mel for all your wisdom again everybody listening the great birth rebellion an epic resource for all mamas to be birth workers birth nerds everyone head on over and listen to mel thank you
Mel:
[1:30:30] To get access to the resources for each podcast episode join the mailing list at melanie the midwife.com and to support the work of this podcast wear the rebellion in the form of clothing and other merch at the great birth rebellion.com follow me mel @melaniethemidwife on socials and the show @thegreatbirthrebellion all the details are in the show notes.
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