Episode 164 - Navigating Homebirth transfer
Mel:
[0:00] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Melanie Jackson. I'm a clinical and research midwife with my PhD, and each episode I cast a critical eye over current maternity care practice by grappling with research and historical knowledge to help you get the best out of your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey.
Mel:
[0:24] Welcome to today's episode of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. Last week, we spoke about the option of home birth and if it was a good choice for you. This week, we're talking to midwife, Abby Sidery, who, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while now, you may have heard her mum, Cheryl Sidery, being interviewed on one of our podcast episodes, which was episode 79. She's been a midwife for over 40 years, and now Abby's also a midwife. Abby was planning a home birth, but she tells a story on this episode about her transatlantic from home to hospital and how even though she transferred, the birth experience was exhilarating. Nothing went to plan, but she's sharing her story and I want to bring it to you as a way of describing and explaining that even if you're planning a home birth and it ends in transfer, this is not a failure and your birth can still be exceptional just because you planned a home birth, even if you transfer to hospital. As usual, when I do birth stories on the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, you'll hear a little sound effect that indicates that I'm about to chime in in the middle of the story, give a little bit of my own tidbits. I don't like to interrupt our guests when they're telling their own story, but in post-production add a few little tidbits just to help build up the story.
Mel:
[1:48] Let's get into it. Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, Abby.
Abby:
[1:52] Why, thank you very much, Mel.
Mel:
[1:54] Oh, I was so excited to talk to you because you recently shared on social media about your birth and about all the unexpected twists and turns. But then your ultimate experience was quite positive.
Abby:
[2:09] Yeah.
Mel:
[2:10] And so I was really interested in sharing your story because so often women's births don't go the way they expect it. And trauma and disappointment isn't always the only end result when things don't go as planned. So I'm really keen to hear how you felt through that experience and how you came out the other side, feeling as you do about your birth. So before we kick off, I'd love to just, if you could introduce yourself to our listeners.
Abby:
[2:39] Amazing. My name is Abby Sidery. I guess first and foremost, Cheryl Sidery's daughter, who is a midwife, who's also been on Great Earth Rebellion and was at the Convergence last year. I am a midwife. I've been a midwife for eight years now. And I'm also a mother of two. So I've got a just-turned-seven-year-old daughter, Bobby, and a son, Felix. And I do childbirth education on the side too. So I've got a birth class called Birth Circle that I've taken over for a month.
Mel:
[3:11] Are you currently working as a midwife clinically?
Abby:
[3:14] Yeah, yeah. So I'm working in a MAPS program. So that's continuity just for the pregnancy or the antenatal appointments. And then I do the postnatal home visits once they're in the community.
Mel:
[3:26] All right. Well, let's get into your birth story. So this is seven years ago, right? So first baby?
Abby:
[3:33] Yeah.
Mel:
[3:34] Let's do it. You start wherever you feel is most helpful.
Abby:
[3:39] Okay. Well, I guess to set the scene, mum was a home birth midwife my entire existence. She started doing, I guess, what you would call an apprenticeship during my pregnancy, like a home birth apprenticeship. In my childhood, I would, I mean, the first birth I went to, I was six, and it was watching my best friend's little brother be born. That mum is now a midwife as well, and we work together, which is pretty cool. And then when I was a little bit older, I would sometimes go to births with mum if they had younger kids or something and it would help look after them. So...
Abby:
[4:17] You know watching babies be born at home was something that I was pretty comfortable with it was funny like friends would come over during you know after school for after school play or whatever and there'd just be like a photo of a perineum stretched over a baby's head on the dining table or like that was our norm at our house back when people printed photos anyway so then I went on to do midi so that's kind of backstory felt pregnant and obviously the plan. Well, not obviously, but I was pretty intent on having a home birth. That definitely felt like the right choice for me. There wasn't a lot of convincing, so to say, to get my partner on board. I mean, he'd been pretty heavily informed over the, we'd been together for seven years. There was many dinner table conversations about home birth, I guess,
Abby:
[5:08] Compared to hospital birth. And I'd been a midwife for a year as well. So I'd done my year of post-grad midwifery, the graduate diploma of midwifery, and I'd been working in MGP for a year in the hospital. And I'd actually been going to home births as the second with mum in my pregnancy as well. So just, you know, that stark comparison between what a hospital birth, even in the birth centre, you know, the difference between that and we were birthing at home. And it's quite, yeah, the decision to choose to birth at home definitely felt like the right choice for us. So, yeah, my mum was our midwife, super low complication pregnancy, literally so straightforward and didn't have a hiccup, which I'm incredibly thankful for. I was 39 and 6, had had a bit of a show in the morning, didn't really think much of it. And then my sister and I were going for a walk along the beach and then I just went, oh, oh my gosh, full on gush in my leggings, like wet down to my knees. I was like, oh, okay, I think my waters are just broken.
Abby:
[6:17] Thankfully, a friend had given me some newborn nappies that had grown out old. So I sat on them and then, yeah, we didn't really have much more fluid coming out, but obviously I was super excited. I was like, oh my gosh, okay, this is cool. So that was on a Tuesday, like, yeah, 2 p.m., I think, roughly around that time. So, yeah, 2 p.m., waters had broken. I was pretty certain that's what it was. But it didn't have any tightenings or anything. And then so just, you know, we had dinner and stuff, went to bed. Then about 10 p.m. that night I was asleep and woke up and was like, oh, my gosh, I just got a period pen cramp. Okay, ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. No, don't think anything of it. And then I can't remember. So, you know, maybe it was half an hour later, filmed another one. So I was like, oh, this is exciting. And then my partner, that was super, you know, just all over the shop. I wasn't timing them or anything.
Abby:
[7:13] So my partner was like, oh, you know, should I go to work? Should I stay home? And I was like, go to work. He's like, no, no, no, it's too exciting. So he kind of, he got the bath set up with air and everything. He went and did some groceries. And so, yeah, it was Wednesday now. And things had definitely picked up. I remember really getting like shutter vision whenever one would come and feeling really like it was super intense but really spread out. And they were maybe like every half an hour, all of Wednesday with the sun being up.
Mel:
[7:39] Now here, Abby is talking about pre-labour rupture of membranes where your waters break before you go into labour. We've done a whole podcast episode on this. It's episode 44. It's called Pre-labour Rupture of Membranes. And you'll hear in that episode that hospital management of broken waters is a lot more time sensitive than if you've got your own private midwife and you get really a bit longer. If you hired a private midwife, they'll often be more comfortable with waiting a bit longer than if you're in hospital. And so that's the context of what Abby's speaking about here when she talks about pre-labor rupture of membranes.
Abby:
[8:17] Then Wednesday night was like, okay, things really, the sun went down.
Abby:
[8:22] They were getting you know super close together they were lasting a minute and we're like three in ten for quite a few hours so then We got the midwife there. We didn't put water in the bath or anything yet. And, you know, I was using the TENS machine, was in the shower, was on the birth ball, you know, kind of doing everything. So it really felt like, yeah, this is, we're on. And then, you know, I wasn't really able to talk. I was really just very much focused on just getting through each one. By maybe like 2 a.m., I think, or maybe 3 a.m., my partner was like, oh, I need to go have a snooze. So my sister was living upstairs. So she came down and she was just kind of helping massage my back and everything. And then they started really, you know, there had been three in 10 and they were kind of, then they were like one in 10 and then they were like one in 15 and then the sun started coming up.
Abby:
[9:16] And we also weren't 100% sure if my waters had broken. The fluid is totally clear and I wasn't losing that much. There was no scent to it. so then we're like oh maybe waters haven't broken not sure but the sun came up on the Thursday and everything kind of fizzled out again they were back to like on every 20 minutes every half an hour so we went to our local hospital because we were coming up to you know that kind of 48 hour mark you know I was looking at the Cochrane review like trying to do research whilst also trying to like switch off kind of thinking you know should I be having antibiotics should I be being induced but I kind of I felt you know she was well didn't know she was a she at the time but baby was really active temperature was normal yeah there was barely any fluid coming away so maybe it was weed you know maybe I had wet myself I'm not sure so Thursday afternoon we went to our local hospital for a CTG that was in consultation with mum she kind of felt like you know we should do due diligence I guess and I was on board with that so I was booked in at our local hospital which is about 45 minutes away from, or half an hour away from the hospital that I was working at. I booked in at both hospitals. So I had a CTG. It was literally perfect within 20 minutes, which if you've ever done a CTG, that's quite rare. So CTG being like continuous heart rate monitoring for baby, which I'm sure everyone that's listened to your podcast is well aware of.
Mel:
[10:44] If you're interested in the research about CTGs, We have multiple Great Birth Rebellion podcast episodes specifically on the use of CTG 112, 113 and 114, and we'll list all of these in the show notes below.
Abby:
[10:59] The midwife that was doing the CTG, she said, look, why don't we do a speculum exam and we can test the fluid or, you know, see if there's any fluid coming away. So a registrar came in, confirmed, yeah, definitely amniotic fluid. So yeah, at this point, we're kind of 48 hours of water's being released. And they just said, look, we recommend you stay and have the Sintocin and drip. But I didn't feel that. The urgency just yet i mean this was only yes seven years ago but even at that point it was still you know that kind of 72 hour mark of prolonged rupture of membranes to me still felt safe and i thought most women what is it i think like 96 of women will be in active labor by nine by 72 hours i'm like come on that's right yeah i was like we can do this yeah um so went back home had you know contractions sun went down contractions increased again and I swear they were two in ten all night and you know I were just laying in the bed I'd kind of I'd done like some steps and so I didn't feel safe being out of our place like being mum was like why don't you go down for a walk or just like you know walk around the block and I just felt very um
Abby:
[12:14] Being outside I felt really vulnerable and very like oh I felt really agoraphobic I just wanted to be inside so I'd kind of done some nipple stimulation and you know pacing around the house and stuff we watched a rom-com and then yeah sun was down contractions increased again and just all night you know had the Thames machine on and would like get up on all fours and just be like moaning and groaning for a minute and then we're like flopped down about like snoring my head off and then like five minutes later be like Thames machine up on all fours my partner's massaging and get an Intensitine on and then, like, flopping back down all night. Like, all night. But still, I was like, oh, I definitely – these aren't contractions that are going to get a baby out. Yeah.
Mel:
[13:00] And this is still, like, the second night. This is night two? Yes.
Abby:
[13:05] Regular. Technically kind of night three. So it was like, what, probably 58 hours or something of what is being broken or maybe a bit more.
Abby:
[13:15] So then the sun came up again. Mum came at maybe like 9am and just, you know, was checking in. How was your night? Everything was exactly the same. With the sun coming up, the contractions didn't quite have paced after every 20 minutes or something. And, yeah, we're coming up to that kind of 72-hour mark. Mum was like, do you want to go into hospital? Do you want to stay? You know, these are the risks. These are the benefits of both kind of options. So at that point I was like, yeah, this I feel like we kind of need to get a show on in the road here. So we decided to go drive the half an hour to the hospital that I was working at just because I knew everyone there. You know, Mum wasn't an employee at the Royal there at that point, but mum had done basically her entire career there so everyone knows who she is and I was obviously still an employee there because mum wasn't an employee she had to just kind of be there in a doula role I guess and also her one you know one of her best friends who she's kind of introduced her to the home birth community shake please she also had come to be with us at home and kind of help us make a plan and then she came to the royal with us as well so I had mum I I had Shea and then I had lovely, amazing MGP midwife Tess as well to look after me. She was the kind of delivery suite to midwife, if you will.
Abby:
[14:36] So I was pretty well protected, guarded. I don't know what word I want to use there, but I had, you know, the best of the best really. So I'm incredibly fortunate. I absolutely don't underestimate how lucky I am. To have access to that so at that point they did an internal I was seven centimeters six or seven centimeters I think um yeah almost 72 hours of water's being broken had the drip and then had a few hours of the drip here
Mel:
[15:15] Abby makes reference to the drip now the drip refers to IV fluids that are put on in a continuous IV drip. And for the purpose of induction, the fluids include artificial oxytocin. Here in Australia, it's called syntocinon. In the US and elsewhere, it's called pitocin. So when Abby talks about the drip, she's referring to the oxytocin drip. If you want to learn more about the exact process of induction, we've covered that in the Great Birth Rebellion podcast episodes in the past, 133, 134, and episodes 33. I'll link all of those in the show notes.
Abby:
[15:57] Things intensified pretty quickly and then got in the bath. I was in the bath for a few hours. I think the water was maybe a little bit too hot. It felt so good, but her heart rate was a bit high, so we got out of the bath for a little bit.
Abby:
[16:11] And then her heart rate normalised because I obviously had continuous monitoring, so I got back in the bath. And then I just remember... Having a contraction and then in the end of it just hearing that pushing sound that my body's did and I was like oh my gosh I've heard that sound before I know what this means I was like like so excited but this is all you know no one would have known that I was excited also literally my internal dialogue internal monologue and yeah I was just like this is epic it's finally happening oh my god but like I'm not joking every single contraction my internal monologue was going get an epidural get an epidural get an epidural this is so awful you can't do this it's too hard and then the second the contraction would finish I'd be like you couldn't sit still for an epidural you're fine and then just be snoring and then the same thing would happen again with the next contraction I'm
Mel:
[17:06] Curious to know if you felt because with the drip that I'm assuming that's the syntosin on drip, the oxytocin to get the contractions going.
Abby:
[17:16] Yeah.
Mel:
[17:16] And again, I can only assume that the CTG monitoring had telemetry so you could get in the water with it.
Abby:
[17:22] Yeah.
Mel:
[17:23] Yeah, great. So do you have any reflections on what contractions felt like without the synto, without the oxytocin, compared to when you had the oxytocin? Did you feel a noticeable difference?
Abby:
[17:37] I mean, they were definitely obviously closer together. But interestingly, reading Rachel Reed describe how there's no real stages of labour. We have these kind of peaks and troughs and I can't even remember the words. I've just forgotten the words she uses for each kind of phase. But the contractions that I was having at three centimetres at home, what I suspect would have been three centimetres, were as intense and full on as the ones at eight centimetres, but then the ones at six centimetres were like half an hour apart and intense and would take my breath away, but then it'd finish and I'd be, you know, back to kind of normal. Yeah. So... Just, like, they were definitely intense. They were, yeah. And I, you know, wasn't speaking in between them, wasn't speaking during them. It was just, like, couldn't even get, couldn't open my eyes, couldn't breathe in, couldn't do anything. But I remember them offering the gas, and I'm like, like, breathing out. And they're like, honey, you know, you need to breathe in, you need to do a big breath in. And I was like, I can't. It was just, oh, my God. You know, I'd done calm birth, I'd done all the preparation, I was like fully prepared, couldn't breathe in, not for one second.
Mel:
[18:56] Yeah. So then you started feeling this, what felt like an irresistible urge and you identified that as, oh, wait, this is what happens when women are getting ready to push their babies out.
Abby:
[19:07] Yeah. Yes. So I was pushing in the bath for a while and then, you know, nothing was really changing. So I felt like the right decision to get out of the bath. I mean, ideally, I'd been kind of hoping for a water birth, but, you know, things change. So it got out, was on the birthstool for a while. I'm thinking like, yeah, I must be like cracking on this. I'm, you know, I'm killing this. This is awesome. I'm working so hard. I remember saying to the midwife, how much of her head can you see? Or how much of the head can you see? And she goes, none yet, honey. And I was like, oh, I can't do it anymore. I can't. It's just been going for too long. It's all too hard. So ended up pushing for like two hours I think and then lots of different positions you know on my back on my front all fours on the birth stall kind of everything and then got up onto the bed and then I was incredibly fortunate another person who's been on the podcast lovely Andrew Bissetts had been kind of hovering around the door just making sure everything was okay Here,
Mel:
[20:11] Abby is referring to Dr. Andrew Bissetts, who we very affectionately refer to as the Breach Whisperer here in Australia. Abby and her mum, Cheryl, have worked very closely with Andrew throughout their careers. And so they have a very trusting relationship. We spoke to Andrew Bissetts on the podcast before regarding Breach Birth on episode 26. And I've linked that in the show notes below if you want to have a look.
Abby:
[20:37] And, you know, he knew I'd been pushing for two hours, so hospital policy is obstetric review at that point, which by then I was just like, I'm done. Cut my leg off if that's going to make this go quicker. I'm just, you can do anything. I'm just, oh. So Andrew did an examination. He said, you know, they're in a really good position, but we are concerned about the heart rate. is doing, you know, big decelerations but taking longer to recover. And it was, yeah, it was funny. I was just at my absolute, I was just, I was done. I was absolutely done. And he said, you know, would recommend we'll do a Ventus. And I was like, yeah, that's totally fine. And so he tried to get the vacuum on, but she had heaps of hair so he couldn't get any suction. It just kept popping off. And then, yeah, so then he said, look, I think, you know, do I have your consent to use forceps? And I was just like, yeah, you don't need to go through the full consent. I totally understand.
Abby:
[21:48] And mum said, now, Andrew, ask consent for an episiotomy, please. And he said, of course. And he was like, Abby, do I have your permission to do an episiotomy? And I said, no, thank you. Only if you – as a quick kind of side note, as a midwife, the – oh, my God, what was that thing that came in? What's that bloody called?
Mel:
[22:10] The perineal bundle.
Abby:
[22:11] A perineal bundle, yes. That had just literally like a month – it came in just as I went on that leave. So it must have been literally, yeah, like the first month of it. And he was a big kind of contributor to that actual thing. So he was like, look, recommendation is to have an episiotomy when you're having an instrumental. And I said, no, I just, I know you can do it without one. So I'd prefer not, please. I'd prefer to tear.
Mel:
[22:37] Abby just referenced the perineal bundle and we have absolutely covered the perineal bundle on the Great Birth Rebellion podcast before. That is episode 19. So if you're curious to know what Abby's talking about with the perineal bundle, which often involves episiotomies, then that is the episode that I recommend, episode 19. It's linked in the show notes below.
Abby:
[23:01] And then I honestly couldn't tell you how long it took, but it felt like she was out much, you know, super quick after that. And she was fine. She went straight on my chest. It was utter relief. So I did have something called a pudendal block where, if you want to explain what that is, they do an anesthetic into the pudendal nerves via the vaginal wall. So I couldn't feel I could feel you know my the pressure and everything but I couldn't feel the like a burning ring of my perineum I could see I felt like my clitoris was um tearing but it didn't certainly felt like it though so I'm not sure what's worse um and then the sensation of her body being born of just like feeling like an octopus just like just being done and being like Oh, oh, my God, sweet relief. That was just the absolute best thing ever. And she barely, she had a tiny little gray somewhere on her face that was gone pretty much in a couple of hours. He inspected I didn't need any stitches, which is incredibly rare with forceps, as you can imagine.
Mel:
[24:19] Yeah, and it also speaks probably to his expertise as well, I think.
Abby:
[24:25] A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah.
Mel:
[24:27] Yeah. Obviously also to the integrity of your amazing perineum.
Abby:
[24:31] Well, of course.
Mel:
[24:33] Amazing. So forceps, no tears.
Abby:
[24:36] Yeah.
Mel:
[24:36] Yeah.
Abby:
[24:37] Normal blood loss. I consented to active management because I was like, yeah, that's been in labor for a really long time, I think. Yeah, I think maybe like 200 mil blood loss or something. Couldn't believe it.
Abby:
[24:51] Could not believe it. I mean, not many people's story goes like that, but the –
Abby:
[24:57] The sense of triumph and utter power, I was just like, oh, my gosh, that was the most intense, incredible thing I have ever done. And I just looked at her little face and I was like, oh, my gosh, of course, that's what you look like. Like, how did I not realize that? You're the most perfect thing I've ever seen. And I just was like, I was like, oh, walking around. My partner was gray. he slid down onto the birth mat and just was like snoring so loudly because it had been days and days of no sleep and it was like late on it so she was born she ended up being born like just before 8 p.m on the friday night and then yeah mom was like okay you're just going to go up to the postnatal ward for a couple of hours you know come home first thing sorry not a couple of hours like to sleep there overnight come home first thing in the morning and i was like i'll drive us home i feel fine i just tell him my mom's like nick is catatonic you have just had fosses and almost a four-day labor no you're gonna go to the postnatal ward and just sleep i was like oh okay but i literally just laid in the hospital bed like this all night it was just you're all
Mel:
[26:11] Buzzing off the adrenaline.
Abby:
[26:12] And so like high yeah so high just so like this like euphoria total it was the best sensation I've ever experienced in my entire life.
Mel:
[26:25] So amazing. And I love that. Pretty much everything that you had planned did not happen.
Abby:
[26:32] Yeah.
Mel:
[26:33] No water birth, no home birth, none of that. Yeah. Yet, still at the end, you felt this incredible and this triumphant. I'm wondering if you have any insight into what elements of your birth made it so that At the end of all that, you still felt so incredible and so victorious.
Abby:
[26:57] Yeah. I mean, I think there's a few things. I think before going into labor, I guess I was like, oh, you know, I was doing yoga, but I'm not someone who's like ever run a marathon. And so the thought of potentially doing a marathon that I certainly had not trained for, I was like oh I don't think I've got that in me I'll be really surprised if I can so I think there was that level of like oh my god you totally just nailed that and I think because I knew that I'd kind of I'd done the work I'd done the preparation I'd you know I'd planned to birth at home so I think when you plan to birth at home and it doesn't happen for me personally I think okay
Abby:
[27:46] It just, it was, you know, there is always going to be a level or there is always going to be something that teaches you that you just have to surrender to. You know, you can't control it. You can do all the preparation and you can, you know, be as prepared as possible. But for me personally, like if you choose to birth at home and it doesn't happen, that's not a failure.
Abby:
[28:08] It's you've done absolutely everything. And it wasn't just a fault of the system that it didn't happen so I think that was part of it I remember in my pregnancy a student midwife saying oh like you know what do you really not want to happen and I was like oh I really don't want forceps I think I'd prefer a cesarean than forceps because I'd seen some not very good ones but it honestly was just the most incredible experience and obviously just having you know being surrounded by people that didn't you know there was no like you should do this or you should did that it was like here are your options what would you like to do and I just I never felt like any power was taken away from me everyone was so beautiful and amazing and just so supportive the entire time even though it was such a long time my partner was completely unwavering you know my midwives mum was like I can't I just I feel so bad that would have been so stressful it's your daughter and your grandchild despite it going on for so long she just you know stayed positive and didn't show me that she had any concerns after she was like yeah it was really stressful but I mean obviously I was like I'm selfish at that time I hadn't really thought about the what it would have been like for her.
Abby:
[29:28] When Sarah Buckley was on your podcast talking about oxytocin and something really hit home for me that if you've already been laboring and then you have the syntocin and infusion and then you have the syntocin and infusion that that can really you know it can work it can really boost and it can work quite well and I was like I reckon that's totally what happened.
Mel:
[29:47] This episode that Abby's referring to is episode 101 with Dr. Sarah Buckley where we talk about the brain and the body in labor. I would highly recommend listening to this episode and I will link it in the show notes below.
Abby:
[30:01] With Bobby's labor, for sure.
Mel:
[30:03] Well, I think when your labor's augmented rather than started straight away, you know, firstly, your body's already ready to receive oxytocin. Yeah. And yeah, what I'm hearing from your story, all of the controllable elements that you could have controlled... And made decisions about, you did. So you chose your care team,
Mel:
[30:24] you chose your birthplace, your support team was on your side 100%. And although you had all those interventions, they were delivered in a way that still allowed you to labour how you would have in water.
Abby:
[30:41] Yeah.
Mel:
[30:42] You know, these are, I think, a unique scenario in a sense that you had your midwives were able to facilitate the induction without letting go of everything, like without depriving you of having the water and being able to move around. And so, yeah, it just sounds like everything that you could control, you did in terms of choosing the people and then also having been comfortable with the location because you're familiar with the space. Sounds like that was all really protective.
Abby:
[31:14] Oh, huge. There's absolutely no way. Like had I had MGP or, you know, standard hospital care, there is no way it would have gone that way. You know, I would have been back and forward from the hospital, so many CTGs. But, you know, even as a midwife, you know, you don't see that. Like, I mean, technically I was in pre-labour for however many days and you don't see that in hospital. You don't see how long that goes for and how exhausting it is And it's, like, not really respected in hospital, I don't think. You're meant to just, you know, kind of wait until they're strong and regular, but I'm like, well, they were strong and regular and I was definitely not, my cervix wouldn't have been open enough for it to, you know, warrant even admission to hospital. But it was still, like, yeah, if I didn't have the information that I already had. Yeah, it would have been a Caesar probably on the Wednesdays.
Mel:
[32:11] Yeah. And then, although we didn't intend to talk about your next birth, we could maybe just really briefly, was there anything more that you wanted to say about that birth? Well, I guess.
Abby:
[32:24] Just one other thing to add was that my pelvic floor, you know, I'd never had any urinary leakage or fecal leakage or, you know, didn't have any incontinence whatsoever. My pelvic floor was certainly heavy for a number of weeks but never had any issues whatsoever. By eight weeks I was like, yeah, I feel other than I'm now lactating and I'm a totally different person. Physically I felt, you know, back recovered, I guess, but new and improved, I'll say.
Mel:
[32:58] New and improved. That's right. Which is incredible too because, yeah, there are, as you would know, some inherent risks with forceps, the pelvic floor damage, but it sounds like it was done really gently. Yeah. And did you have your next baby? Did all of the original plans eventuate?
Abby:
[33:20] Yes. So, yeah, Bowie ended up being born at 40 plus 2 and then Felix, our little boy, our number 2, so it was two years and seven months later. It was a friday night literally the exact same time it was like 10 p.m i'd just fallen asleep and i woke up i was like oh my god i just felt period pain and i was like okay just ignore it you know you've got ages fell back to sleep 10 minutes later had another one 10 minutes later had another one 10 minutes later well five minutes later had another one and then nick's like i'm going to work up you okay and i was like i think i'm having a distraction and then it was just three and ten super intense straight away he was like I'm gonna fill up the bath I was like no we've got ages it's gonna be forever because it'd only been an hour and he's like no let me just get the bath prepped so then I can just fully focus on you I was like okay and then we called my mum as it was again it was a low low risk pregnancy we called mum she got there at I think maybe midnight or one and she thought I was probably like nine centimeters at that point so it had gone super quickly you know this is going to go really quickly so they're getting the water in the
Abby:
[34:37] Second midwife got there. I had Darusha there taking photos, which was amazing. And, yeah, it just went super quickly. I remember Bobby, our daughter, she was two and a half at the time. She woke up and she came. We'd obviously been preparing her. And she just came and, like, cuddled me and it was so beautiful. And then I'd have a really big contraction and she'd kind of sit back. Then, you know, then it would stop and then she'd come back and cuddle me again. And then I had a rip-roaring one that was super intense. And so my sister came and got her and she went upstairs. And then, yeah, got in the bath, got out of the bath, moved around, sat on the toilet, got back in the bath. By now it's like 5 a.m., I think, and they were still the same, just super intense, super close together, really, really full on. And I just remember looking at everyone saying, I don't want to go to hospital, I don't want to go to hospital. Everyone's like, you're not going to hospital, everything's fine. I'm like, okay. And then I looked like fully staring people in the eyes and being like, I don't want to do this anymore. or someone else has to do it. Like, so ridiculous. It's not making any sense.
Abby:
[35:42] And then I think it was like 6 a.m., so I'd been, you know, been really, really intense for a really long time, or what felt like a really long time anyway. And so mum said, do you want me to do an internal and we'll just see what's happening? And I said, yes, please. And she said, look, you're nine centimetres. Do you want me to break your waters? Because I feel like you've been nine for quite a while. So I was like, of course. Of course, first time waters break and then not enough happens and then this time waters won't break. And I was like, oh. So I was like, yes, please break my waters. Please, please, please. And she said he was really quite high. I mean, it might mean anything to most of the listeners, but like minus three, so still really high in the pelvis. But she managed to break the waters and he was born 20 minutes later. And I'm not joking. It was like a freight train. it was so intense I could feel every contraction every push like all the way down to my knees felt like all the bones were shattering into tiny little pieces and then coming back together and I was just like oh my gosh but I was in the bath and I was kind of over on all fours and then that push yeah that pushing urge was just so full on I think he was I think he was born in 20 minutes or something
Abby:
[36:59] Yeah, that was so full on. And I just screamed for like a minute and a half. I won't do it because people are not going to want to listen to that on a podcast, but I literally screamed. We were videoing it and you hear my mum on the video go, I think she's pleased. I think she's excited. I'm not sure. I'm just like, I'm looking at everyone. I'm looking at him going, whoa, that was so empty.
Mel:
[37:26] Do you have that video?
Abby:
[37:29] I do.
Mel:
[37:30] Oh, my gosh. Can we share it when the podcast goes live?
Abby:
[37:35] It could, actually. I've often thought about doing one of those, like, you know, that beautiful video of the woman laughing just as she's given birth and she's just giggling, giggling. I've often thought, like, posting that would be like how I thought it would be and how it really was and I'm just like, oh. I honestly sounded like a morning Italian grandmother.
Mel:
[37:54] Oh, my gosh.
Abby:
[37:56] It was really quite peculiar. and then I kind of came back down to earth and then screamed again because I'd checked and he was a boy and I was like,
Mel:
[38:02] Oh, my gosh. You know, this is like when you have your baby, the immediate moment after you have your baby, there's a huge oxytocin hit in your body. So it makes sense that if you're feeling comfortable and safe that you just respond really dramatically. I laughed and laughed and laughed as my second baby was coming out. Like I couldn't hold it back. Like it was hysterical, like almost psychopathic laughing. And I heard my midwife whisper, what is she doing?
Abby:
[38:35] I was just like,
Mel:
[38:36] I can't explain what I'm doing. But, like, I'm so happy that this baby is finally coming out of me. I was so happy that, and, you know, literally this child was moving through my body. So, you know, I'm not surprised. I can understand why. I just think it would be so, like, the joy of birth just captured right there.
Abby:
[38:59] Yeah, it was definitely out there. But, yeah, he was born at 40 plus 10, so that was a really long 10 days.
Mel:
[39:06] Oh, my gosh.
Abby:
[39:07] We're getting to 40 plus 7, and then my partner was like, so what do we do if you don't go into labor? I was like, oh, my God, I hadn't even thought about that. No. But then didn't have to do anything.
Mel:
[39:19] I just think there's so many beautiful little take-home messages for people here. I just think it's such a beautiful way to just. there's two usually there's two two stories that people tell it's like I got everything I wanted it was amazing or nothing went to plan and now I have to recover from trauma so I love that this does not sit in either of those gaps yeah and women can see that it's completely possible for things not to go to plan but still be glorious particularly with those elements of knowing your care team yeah and feeling safe with them that sounds like a really pivotal and key part of your story that you trusted Andrew and his skill with the forceps and that you had a team who, was willing to go with you wherever it is you wanted to go and that everything was done consensually and in your time and that there were lots of little allowances made to make sure that you know not everything was lost so you still got to use the pool and yeah there was lots of things that could still be navigated.
Abby:
[40:23] Yeah. I mean, I guess it made it slightly easier in that, you know, I was already a midwife, so they didn't need to be trying to explain the risks and benefits of a water birth when you're having, you know, your labour augmented because I already knew. I was just like, this is what I'm going to do. Okay, thanks. Which, I mean, technically women can do as well,
Mel:
[40:43] You know. Right. So if they're informed enough to be able to know actually, I've already thought about this and I already have my decision.
Abby:
[40:53] Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, the midwife may not be allowed to put the taps on, but there are two people in that room that aren't midwives.
Mel:
[41:03] Well, the thing with hospital policy is that those are the rules that the staff have to follow, but the women don't have to follow policy. So, yes, your midwife would be obliged to tell you, actually, in these scenarios, the policy states you're not supposed to get in the water, and then the midwife's done their job. Yeah. But you're a grown person, a grown woman.
Abby:
[41:26] Do you want to do with that information?
Mel:
[41:27] Yeah. And you go, well, that's nice. Thank you very much. I actually will be getting in the water. And some places have rules about if your waters are broken for a certain period of time, you can't get in the water.
Abby:
[41:37] Oh, yeah, potentially.
Mel:
[41:39] Stun. But it does speak to the fact that while there might be policies about this, you're still the boss. So they're obliged to tell you what the policy is, but you don't have to follow it. Yeah. Incredible. Thank you so much for telling your story. And I desperately hope that we can work out how to get that hysterical moment after you had your baby. I shouldn't have said hysterical, but like, you know, this frantic laughter, screaming.
Abby:
[42:10] Yeah, it's literally, like I'm wailing. It's insane. Yeah, I'll see how much, whether I want to show my body naked on social media or not.
Mel:
[42:21] Yeah, you'd have to feel totally comfortable with that. To get access to the resources for each podcast episode, join the mailing list at melaniethemidwife.com and to support the work of this podcast, wear the rebellion in the form of clothing and other merch atthegreatbirthrebellion.com. Follow me, Mel, @melaniethemidwife on socials and the show @theGreatBirthRebellion. All the details are in the show notes.
This transcript was produced by ai technology and may contain errors.
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