Episode 183 - The great rebellious wrap up 2025
Mel:
[0:00] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. I'm your host,
Mel:
[0:03] Dr. Melanie Jackson. I'm a clinical and research midwife with my PhD. And each episode, I cast a critical eye over current maternity care practice by grappling with research and historical knowledge to help you get the best out of your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum journey. What are you doing?
Dan:
[0:26] Hi, everyone.
Mel:
[0:28] Oh, no. Okay.
Dan:
[0:28] Welcome to today's episode of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. If you remember earlier this year, Ashley, I started the first episode for 2025, and so it seems only fitting that I start the last episode as well. So welcome to the great...
Mel:
[0:44] I can't do this. Hello and welcome. I have to start it. I can't do the podcast episode unless I start it. Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. This last episode for 2025 and today you're here with me, Melanie Jackson, as always, and my right and left-hand man, Dan, who is not only my marketing manager, company director, IT and web manager, but he's also the father of my children, our children. And husband of 23 years. Welcome to the podcast, Dan. How did you like stealing that introduction from me just now?
Dan:
[1:25] Oh, it was lovely. I enjoyed doing it at the beginning, too, of the year. It was great. Yeah, we did. I love this podcast. It's fantastic.
Mel:
[1:33] Shoot. Okay.
Dan:
[1:34] All right. Listen to it every week.
Mel:
[1:36] He does, actually. One of Dan's jobs is to take the little reels, the little snippets that you see on social media. He picks those out, edits them up nicely for you so that you can all get little podcast snippets through your week. Welcome, Dan. So I've got Dan here with me today because every year at the end of the year, we do a little bit of a podcast wrap up. So Dan's here behind the scenes making everything run smoothly. I am the one that's completely obsessed with researching and creating the resources and the products that you all benefit from. And Dan makes sure that all the buttons work, that our finances are balanced, that the editing is spot on, that our digital footprint runs smoothly, our taxes are paid on time. Basically, he does everything that you don't see. You are staring at me and I just can't. Can you just look at the camera? Look at the camera. Sure. But not weird. Don't be weird about it.
Dan:
[2:32] Smart.
Mel:
[2:34] Today, we're going to spill the tea on some of the behind the scenes things that have been happening at the Great Birth Rebellion HQ this year and give you a little bit of insight into the best and worst parts it has been i think this has probably been the hardest year in terms of stress levels and i'll explain why but i want to i do want to tell you that the inside the inside you know information that i have about the best but also the worst bits of what's been happening the podcast got investigated by the health regulation agency here in australia don't worry.
Dan:
[3:10] It wasn't for the first time either.
Mel:
[3:12] It wasn't. And you know, I'm just coming to expect that there's going to be pushback against the Great Birth Rebellion podcast because we tell the truth and a lot of the time the system wants to hide things from women and people don't like it then when you start to reveal the truth and share all the information that the system's been trying to hide. So we didn't get in trouble, but we were certainly you know told very clearly that we've got to rein it in but
Mel:
[3:44] Um we're probably gonna get in trouble again because that's not the style so uh there's gonna be a little bit of that and also you know at the end of the year Spotify which is one of the platforms that hosts this podcast sends out this 2025 wrap-up every year you get a wrap-up on how your podcast has been going and we thought it'd be fun to go through that together with you guys to catch real reactions. You know, if you're watching this visually, Dan is the chill, kind of low-key, always calm guy. I have a set of over-the-top physical responses to pretty much everything. Either it's excitement or either it's rage. I physically respond quite heavily to pretty much anything that's exciting or infuriating or whatever. So, you know, feel free if you're watching a video and just have a moment to fully experience what I'm experiencing when we see our Spotify wrap up. Apparently, and I have to confirm this when we do the wrap up, that we've had a thousand percent increase in listenership this year. So, I mean, stay tuned, let's have a look. But you'll hear a little bit more of the personal perspective of what the lives of us, Dan and Mel, the two faces behind the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
Mel:
[5:05] No, he's not the face. I know. I was just about to mention that. There are three people involved in this podcast, but so many more. So we've got the beautiful Julia, who is my executive assistant. She, mate, I just give her instructions and she executes. It's Jules, myself, and Dan in the background, and we have actually so many more. We've got all the guests that are on the podcast and so many people that help us behind the scenes. I couldn't even think to mention them all. But anyway, before we do all of that that I just mentioned, yeah,
Mel:
[5:44] you're just going to put Poppy's ad in. In order to keep this podcast free to you, the listener, I'd like to thank my sponsor for today's episode, Poppy Child from Pop That Mama. This episode is sponsored by Pop That Mama, and there's something huge to celebrate this week. Poppy has just launched Sonic Rooms, which is five immersive tracks for a calmer, stronger inner world while you're giving birth, but also through your time in parenting.
Mel:
[6:13] I don't know anyone who doesn't need this. I need this. I know it's going to be amazing because Pop That Mama's oxytocin bubble has carried thousands of women through labor. Sonic Rooms is a complete nervous system reset in audio form. So five rooms, five psychological shifts. It's designed to help your mind settle, strengthen and find balance, and especially when life feels too loud and too fast. Each room addresses a part of you that gets overwhelmed. One works on your food and body peace. Another builds confidence and boundaries. And there's a room for restless nights, one for those spiraling, intrusive thoughts, and ones that bring you into deep, restorative calm. You step into each room through storytelling and sound, almost like going somewhere in your brain that it's been craving for. It's a mental change of scenery and you come out steadier.
Mel:
[7:15] Sonic Rooms has just launched with a limited price offer. It's available to get right now. If you want in while it's live, the link is in the show notes. A big thanks to Poppy, who is the biggest financial supporter of this podcast without people like her and all of you listening. This podcast couldn't happen. And I do want to say something about that to you who's listening today.
Mel:
[7:41] If you're listening to this particular episode, I know that you are one of the more loyal, committed listeners because you're invested in this podcast. It's close to Christmas. I'm not giving any specific medical or research information today, but you're here listening to what's going on behind the scenes. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the listening hours that you've put in. Many of you listening have actually also financially contributed to the maintenance of this podcast you know if you have clicked on any of the links if you've signed up to a mailing list if you've purchased anything if you've got merch anything that you've done if you've left a review a five star review and a beautiful little comment on apple podcasts please there's a lot you can do for free to support this podcast just by listening you're supporting because the more people listen the higher the podcast goes in the ranks and more people see it every tiny little thing you do to engage in the podcast is a help. And when all these people do it together, it's a massive group effort to share the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. So I want to thank you all for your support for the whole year. Some of you have even hired me to be your midwife and I've been at your births and I get at least how many personal messages? I share them all with Dan.
Dan:
[9:01] You get a lot. A lot.
Mel:
[9:03] I reckon.
Dan:
[9:04] Constant emails and messages on Instagram. Yeah.
Mel:
[9:08] And I'm like, Dan, look at this one. Another woman and husband who is sending me messages to say thank you so much for the podcast. Without the podcast, I wouldn't have been able to get the birth that I was planning. I get all of those and I can't actually respond to them all because there are
Mel:
[9:24] so many, but all of these things collectively keep this podcast going. We are gearing up for another big year at the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. We are not gearing down. I am forecasting another 10 years of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
Dan:
[9:40] It should be more than that.
Mel:
[9:42] It should be more than that. Dan's wearing it for the long haul. This is our life's work now.
Dan:
[9:47] She'll be doing this when she's about 80%.
Mel:
[9:49] 89 hello ladies and gentlemen oh look at you doing the interpretation of me at 89 and dad's gonna be still back in the background with your old computer trying to edit on like outdated no
Dan:
[10:03] Charlie do it for free he'll be like i'll support your mom.
Mel:
[10:06] Maybe we'll roll the whole family in the podcast has met a lot of challenges over the years as i said because it's counter-cultural It does infuriate some people. And when I see all those amazing messages, when people invest their time and
Mel:
[10:22] money into the work that we're doing, that keeps me going. And, you know, there is this phrase that is stuck in my head and I just can't get it out. But it really spurs me on when I write every single episode. I've got one of those brains that if someone says, no, you can't do it or that's impossible or, you know, basically... But criticism keeps me going, which is kind of great because it means that when someone says, no, that's impossible or no, you can't, I'm like, well, them's fighting words. So let's go. You know, for you rebels who've been around since the beginning, you'll remember that I used to have a co-host to this podcast and she stopped being part of the podcast around episode 74. But not long before that, she said something that I have not been able to shake and not been able to forget. She said, the best episodes are behind us. Our best work is behind us. And I know we're laughing.
Dan:
[11:25] As someone who watches all the stats, they're definitely in front of that episode. The stats have gone up big time.
Mel:
[11:30] The stats have gone up big time. Dan, because he's in charge of marketing and he monitors kind of how everything's going in our company, he's watching the stats. And so we're watching the podcast grow exponentially. But this particular phrase, this best episodes are behind us, our best work is behind us. It really bothered me then and it really bothers me now. But as I said, fortunately, I have a brain that is highly motivated by naysayers. And being challenged is actually fuel, which is why if you've been paying close attention, and this is the first big announcement, I suppose, of this episode, I have been systematically re-recording and updating the older episodes to bring them up to the quality of the episodes that we're making now. Video episodes and the sound quality is better.
Mel:
[12:23] We've been working on sound and visual quality a lot this year and and again we're still every time we see the video and the audio we're like okay how can we improve that again So I'm updating older episodes, bringing them back up to speed. So if there's any old episodes that, any topics that you really loved, you can go back actually. They're going to be updated, re-researched, making them up to speed. And so I actually believe that I am yet to produce my best work because I work really, really hard on each episode. But I think what makes each episode better and better, not the worst episode, you know, they're not getting worse. My future work is always going to get better because I try and get 1% better every day. And even Dan is like, not happy with this. We need to improve it.
Dan:
[13:14] She doesn't like how many times I tell her re-record stuff.
Mel:
[13:17] Re-record it. It's not. Re-record it. Make it better. But, you know, that's what is spurring us on. That's how we approach our work.
Dan:
[13:27] Ready to go into some wins? Oh, yeah. This is going too long.
Mel:
[13:30] It's like, stop talking about all that stuff. Wins. So we're going to talk about wins and challenges, aren't we, today, and a few other things. I reckon, Dan, can we?
Dan:
[13:41] I want to see the stats.
Mel:
[13:44] Well, bring it up. Bring it up on your computer. If you're watching at home, you'll get to see our responses. This is our Spotify wrap for the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. Now, if you're listening at home, just audio, I will do my best to narrate what's going on. But if you are watching, you know, you might get the full facial expressions. Okay. So this is the 2025 wrapped for creators. So this is because we've got the back, we can see the back end of the Great Birth Rebellion on Spotify. So click the button. It says, let's go. Yes. We're going. Okay. 2025. It says, this was quite a year for you. And there's an arrow. It says a little bit of proof that hard work pays off. Thank goodness for that. Oh, my gosh. Nearly a million total plays this year for 2025. That's just on Spotify. So we're on actually heaps of other platforms. Apple platform, is that our main?
Dan:
[14:43] No, I'd say Spotify probably has most of it. We've got Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Stitcher, pretty much any podcasting platform should have us.
Mel:
[14:52] All right, so what you're saying is nearly a million plays just on Spotify. That's right. Okay. It says, again, total audience on Spotify. Is this individual?
Dan:
[15:04] This is individual accounts, yes. Individual. 78,000.
Mel:
[15:08] 78.1 thousand people, individual accounts, are following this podcast on Spotify. So, again, it's just one single. Oh, my gosh. What was it last year? It says.
Dan:
[15:22] It says it's up 168%. Okay.
Mel:
[15:24] Okay, gross.
Dan:
[15:25] 50% of it was about 50,000 last year.
Mel:
[15:28] Wow. Our best work is not behind us, babe. Total new audience. Oh, there you go. Oh, my gosh. That was massive. It tells me that the total new audience is 64,200,000. 64,200. Wait.
Dan:
[15:44] 64,200.
Mel:
[15:46] Yeah. Total new audience. That's massive. It says there's been a 999% increase from last year. Okay. Our best work is not behind us.
Dan:
[15:58] Which means it was like 6,000 new people last year.
Mel:
[16:01] Oh, my goodness. Okay. So it sounds like everyone is loving the changes. And our total followers for the show is increased from 88%. Oh, look at this. Listening time, 14.6 million minutes of listening. How many hours? 243,000 hours of listening. Days of listening, 10.1 thousand. Weeks of listening, 1.4. How many weeks in a year? 52.
Dan:
[16:36] That's right. You get two years.
Mel:
[16:37] Oh, so this is how, this is the listening time. Anybody who's ever listened to the podcast, total on Spotify only, there's the total months of... Of listening time has been 334 months this year in a 12-month year. Okay. So this year, all the Spotify listeners of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, if you played the podcast, the amount of time that all those people were listening, the podcast would go for 27 years. Yeah. It would be 27 years of listening. Okay. There you go. You are amongst friends. If you're listening to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, you are certainly not the only one. And this is an increase. It's telling us a 72% increase in total listening time from last year. All right. I feel like we're on the right track.
Dan:
[17:28] We're definitely on the right track.
Mel:
[17:29] With what we're making here, Dan. It says you cracked the charts. Let's relive it. Okay. Now it's going to tell us where we sit amongst other podcasts so you hit a top 10 podcast you were on the charts for 42 weeks and you charted in two countries okay let's find out that doesn't sound too spectacular but let's find out i mean it's pretty good this year one episode rose above the rest okay they're going to tell us about the the most listened to podcast episode of the year yeah is that right that's right Okay. Episode 144, what to do when you're overdue. I knew that one would do well because women get induced all the time. So just on Spotify, that was played nearly 35,000 times just on Spotify this year. And it was played 214% more than my average episode. Okay.
Dan:
[18:26] A lot of listeners.
Mel:
[18:27] That is massive. It says we're still quoting it. Yeah, I think this is a bit of spin now. Let's talk video. So, spoiler alert, your fans couldn't look away.
Dan:
[18:37] Yeah, because this year we got to start releasing videos on Spotify.
Mel:
[18:41] So, that was something that you instigated. Yeah. So, just so you know, I fought recording these on video for a long time. I didn't want to have to get out of my pajamas. I wanted to be able to just, like, read. Because every time I write an episode, I do it word for word because I script it. Mostly because I know I'm a registered healthcare provider and this podcast gets challenged often, as you'll hear. So I need to make sure I don't accidentally say something I'm not allowed to say. So I really heavily script it to make sure it's in line with all the requirements. And so I fought doing the video, but I'm really glad you pushed on that because on Spotify we released the video and it's also on YouTube and it allows us to release some bites of information on social media so people can really...
Dan:
[19:36] All those reels you get to watch.
Mel:
[19:37] All the reels you get to watch that, you know, just, it's really all little bits of information from the podcast. And that's really our intention, isn't it? To put out as much free, high quality information as possible. Because I think that's where we're going to see the most impact is by offering high quality evidence-based information. On as many free platforms as possible. All right, so it says, let's talk video. Spoiler alert, your fans couldn't look away. What are they going to say now? What's that?
Dan:
[20:12] Oh, what's that? It's number one. It's got to scroll. Oh, okay.
Mel:
[20:15] Your show, stop, stop scrolling. Okay. Your show, it says, was in the top 1% of videos on Spotify. That means we are a top 1% podcast. You are a top 1%. In the whole world. Dan, our top 1% podcast in the whole world of podcasts. That's great. Stop it. What else is it? It's still, it says hot takes and love notes and everything in between. Okay. Oh, it's telling me about people on Spotify. You can comment on podcast episodes and episode 154, it's called how to curate a great birth. That one got the most comments. Go listen to that one. That was actually, I, that's one of my favorite episodes, 154. What's next, Dan? We'll keep going down. I love this wrap up. It says, your listening passport got a real workout. What's that?
Dan:
[21:15] I'm talking about global reach. How many countries are we going to?
Mel:
[21:18] Oh, global reach. Okay, Dan, you reached, oh, 102 countries are listening to the Great Birth Rebellion. And let's see, what are the top? Are they going to tell us the top one? Okay, top countries. Number five is Canada. Go Canada. Dan's Canadian. They knew, Dan. Okay.
Dan:
[21:37] From Vancouver.
Mel:
[21:39] Okay. Oh, then number four is New Zealand. New Zealand. Is that? Oh, gosh, that was a bad accent. I apologize, New Zealand. Then the third highest listening country is the UK. Yes, that's where Poppy's from. Then we've got the United States is number two. I can only guess what's number one.
Dan:
[22:00] I reckon it's going to be Venezuela.
Mel:
[22:02] No, stop it. Australia. Yay. So Australia, US, UK, New Zealand, Canada are our top listening countries. You know, we also have, I regularly hear from listeners from the Czech Republic, Belgium is also really high on the listening list when I had a look at our other stats. Amazing. It's good. We're going over 102 countries are listening to the Great Birth Rebellion. It says top fans assemble. It says you are a top 10 show. So, you know, other people, if you're listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll get a list of your top 10 shows. 44.3 thousand of the fans of the great birth rebellion podcast have us in their top 10 shows that's great oh that's a lot top
Dan:
[22:48] Five for 33.7.
Mel:
[22:50] Thousand oh there's a list for top five and
Dan:
[22:52] Then top one.
Mel:
[22:53] 11 that or nearly 12 000 people have us as their number one show that is so cool Go dare. Look, all I do is record this thing. I research and record it. Okay. It says, okay, you might want to frame this. What are they going to say?
Dan:
[23:12] I don't know.
Mel:
[23:15] Stars, circle. It says fans listened to you for longer than 99% of other shows. I guess that's what makes us a top 1% podcast.
Dan:
[23:28] It's the other way around. Okay.
Mel:
[23:31] So what they're saying is people listened to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast 99%.
Dan:
[23:38] More than 99% of the other shows.
Mel:
[23:42] The Great Birth Rebellion is the top 1% in the world of podcasts. Wow. One of my shared shows. One of my shared shows. That's wild. It says, The Great Birth Rebellion is your year, your fans, your story. Let them in on the win. I think we just did that. Just did that, yeah.
Mel:
[24:04] Welcome to our win. But it's not really. You and I, we make it. We put it out and it's only getting out there because all of you guys are listening so I mean I better not clap that. That's a wrap. I better not clap because that's how Dan knows where to cut the edits out. Because I do this clap, I go, cut that out. And he can see it on the audio stamp. And he goes, oh, there's a clap. I better cut something out. Okay. All right. Look, that's our Spotify rap. But, Dan, you know, one of the big questions I get is where did episode 146 go?
Dan:
[24:53] You told me to take it down because it's the one of the, well, it's the main one. They got a complaint about it this year that went to the government, whatever they're called. I'll tell you. I know what they're actually called, but international people. You're not going to know what APRA are.
Mel:
[25:06] I did. I said to Dan, you've got to take it down. You've got to completely take it down off the internet.
Dan:
[25:11] Not because we were forced to. But just to make sure I didn't get complained about again.
Mel:
[25:15] Well, okay. So let me tell you the story. I've got to be a bit careful. I guess there's some elements here where I'm not allowed to share. That's right. But I'll share what I can. So, again, you who have been listening to the podcast for a while,
Mel:
[25:30] Episode 146, I interviewed Dr. Joel Walsh, who is a pediatrician from the U.S. He's obviously a very experienced medically trained doctor and his speciality is pediatrics, but he also is an epidemiologist and heavily interested in research, particularly about childhood vaccinations because he's a pediatrician, his patients and his clients come to him and they want to ask questions about vaccines. So he made an effort to write this book. It's called Between a Shot and a Hard Place and it's about making decisions about vaccinations for your family.
Mel:
[26:13] They must not have the same restrictions in the US that we do here because here, as healthcare professionals, and you would know because I'm so vigilant about doing the right thing around this for my registration. Regulated healthcare professionals here in Australia, if you want information about vaccines, we will direct you to the Australian Immunizations Handbook because the registration body says, this is the authoritative text. You have to, as a regulated healthcare provider, you have to recommend this text, the Australian Immunizations Handbook and the Australian Vaccine Schedule as the authoritative information. That's the only information you're allowed to give. Now, I learned this firsthand. I knew that. And when I recorded the episode 146.
Dan:
[27:03] You did promote it.
Mel:
[27:04] I promoted it. At the beginning, at least three times through the episode, I directed people to it and I told them this exact same information that I just said now. We also went the next step of linking the vaccine schedule and the Australian Immunization Handbook in the show notes of that episode so that people could click directly. There was no wall behind it. You didn't have to sign up to anything to get it. You could just go straight to it.
Mel:
[27:31] And I felt like by doing that, by really telling people what the requirements were, that that was what I was supposed to do as a registered health care provider. When I had Joel on, I read his book, Between a Shudder and a Hard Place. It hadn't been released yet. And I said to him, I can't have you on the podcast until I've read the book because I'm not anti-vax. We don't encourage people against vaccinating their children. And so I wanted to make sure that the book wasn't you know suggesting to people that they shouldn't vaccinate their kids so I wanted to read the whole thing it took a little bit of time but he did agree to give me a copy of it obviously I had to keep it to myself so read the whole thing I thought great it's very evidence-based it was very like on the fence did not fall either side of what you should or shouldn't do with vaccines and I thought great that's what the podcast is about is giving information so that people can make a decision for themselves and working very hard not to fall on each side of the fence because I know that a lot of people see my, I guess, knowledge and information as, they sometimes will pin some authority on it. So I was, I'm always really careful not to suggest doing something over another.
Mel:
[28:54] That's what we felt that we did on the podcast with Joel, and I knew it would be an emotional topic because it's very hard to discuss vaccines without introducing emotion, but we tried really hard to keep it impartial. Anyway, I asked Joel the questions that a lot of people ask me, a lot of my clients ask me, and it's really hard to answer them because I don't have all the information. Vaccines are not my expertise. I know a little bit. and obviously what I've learned through the Australian Immunization's Handbook, which is considered the authoritative text here in Australia. So I asked Joel the questions that you, the listeners, have been asking me about vaccines and also what my clients ask. He answered them quite helpfully, I thought. And then we listened back to the episode to make sure there was nothing that would suggest which side of the, you know, the vaccine debate we might be on because I wanted to make sure that basically everyone was left wondering, what does Mel think about vaccines? Is she vax? Is she anti-vax? Oh, my gosh. Anyway, and when that episode was released, I got two types of messages.
Mel:
[30:09] Very angry messages from people who don't vaccinate their kids asking me why I'm promoting vaccines. I got asked, who's paying you? Is Big Pharma paying you to promote vaccines? The other side was people who do vaccinate saying you're anti-vax. You are encouraging people not to get vaccinated. And you know what I thought? I thought, great. even the listeners can't decide what I'm what we were doing in this episode because people were accusing me of being pro-vaccination others were accusing me of being anti-vaccination and I thought good we hit a middle zone where nobody can work out what side of the fence myself or Joel are on and I thought that's exactly where I wanted to sit in this discussion okay so I thought great I feel like no one can accuse me of giving anti-vax information because I know that we're not allowed to do that as a registered healthcare provider. So I was really careful about that because I did not want to get into trouble. I just want to give information.
Mel:
[31:20] And then I got heaps of messages from people saying, thank you so much for the information, just the information. And so there was a lot of response to that. And then I got a notification from APRA, which is the Australian Health Practitioners Regulation Agency, to say that someone, I'm absolutely not going to mention who they are, but a well-meaning health professional who's not a midwife felt that we were sharing misinformation and reported it to APRA and that's a massive big deal because that's a challenge to my registration as a healthcare provider this person did not reach out to me I was really I actually really pissed off this one pissed me off because we worked so hard on this episode to make it not be misinformation and not be anti-vax. That was not the intention. Anyway, I am over it. I'm feeling all the emotions here live again.
Mel:
[32:23] Anyway, I responded to that and then APRA decided that the HCCC, the Healthcare Complaints Commission, was actually going to be the one to manage it. So we got passed on to them. They reviewed it and they went, okay, actually, we've decided the Nursing Midwifery Council should be managing this. So this is four or five months down the line now. This is still going on. My hair started to go gray. It's still the stress of it because these agencies and APRA's actually been investigated for the way that they conduct themselves during these kinds of reports. And both the people who complain and the people who are complained about have quite dehumanizing experiences with their healthcare regulator. Like the report on it is scathing. There was very little, I don't think it was anything positive that got said about how APRA deals with complaints. So I got the full brunt of that. And this podcast has been reported to ARPA about six times. The previous times, nothing came of it. They said, look, we've received a complaint, but it's completely ridiculous. We're not even going to pursue it. This one they pursued and...
Mel:
[33:31] So it went all the way to the Nursing Midwifery Council and then it became very obvious to me as I was engaging in emails with them that this process didn't feel fair to me. So I took them up on their opportunity to have a witness come with me to what they were calling a counselling session. So went to the counselling session with my witness and boy am I glad that I took my witness with me because this counselling session that was, I'm still not entirely sure what the intention of it was because what it actually did was it created a scenario where, I mean, I was left really shaken and I'm not normally shaken. I'm normally quite confident and capable of having grown-up conversations. This didn't feel like a grown-up conversation. I felt very much, I don't want to say too much, but I submitted a complaint to the Nursing and Midwifery Council about the conduct of the people who were on the panel, one of which, yeah, anyway, oh, I can't even get into it.
Mel:
[34:34] Afterwards, my support person, who was Hannah Darlan, was just as enraged as I was. She's like, you have not imagined what just happened. And I think if it was anybody else, they would have been broken by that experience. So we're currently in the process of responding to that. The Nessie Midwifery Council, when I submitted a complaint about that experience, decided, oh, look, we can't even work out if what you say is true because it's not recorded. So they suggested I submit a complaint to the ombudsman, which is what we're doing, isn't it? Coming. Oh, just my grey hair. I've had no grey hair. And then now...
Mel:
[35:16] And you remember the last, I got reported like three years ago or something. Again, all of them had been thrown out. They said, you've done nothing wrong, but they still investigate every single one. That time my eyebrows started to fall out. It was, it's really stressful guys. Anyway, so what happened to that episode? That's a really long story to tell you that the findings of that investigation were that the episode, what did they call it? They said it's...
Dan:
[35:46] You were providing ambiguous information. You were guilty of ambiguous information.
Mel:
[35:52] Yes.
Dan:
[35:52] How dare you provide information where people get to just hear the information and make their own decision?
Mel:
[35:58] Well, this is when I discovered. So they said basically that you're guilty of providing ambiguous information and they said it might confuse the public. So that's when I realised as registered healthcare providers, we can't just provide information about vaccines, we actually have to be actively promoting them. And I think that's where... They're saying I went wrong is that I was didn't
Dan:
[36:26] Promote it enough.
Mel:
[36:27] I didn't promote it I just was ambiguous and so everybody's a bit confused like well what do we do now they wanted I think what the register what the regulator wants is for us to be actively promoting and so what their complaint was the episode didn't do that and they asked me to come up with a plan of well what's going to happen now and I said well obviously we need to bring take the podcast episode down because otherwise, I mean, if it's reported once, it could get reported again. And I really, I really do not want more gray hair. So that is the inside information on what happened to episode 146. You can't find it anywhere. It's gone. But people still message me every day, which is why I wanted to mention it. Where's episode 146? It was really good. I wanted to share it and I was like, sorry, it's gone. That's what happened.
Dan:
[37:18] There are a few other episodes that are kind of missing, but most of them have been re-recorded and merged together into one episode or something.
Mel:
[37:24] Yeah, but that's what we're doing. The ones that are missing, we're updating and improving on.
Mel:
[37:29] Oh, that was so stressful. There were so many nights that I did not sleep about that, isn't it?
Dan:
[37:34] Talk about something even more fun then.
Mel:
[37:38] That's what happened. Anyway, so then, so then, you know, we are always upwards. We're really trying to go forward. So what else are we doing, Dan? All right.
Dan:
[37:49] Let's start with, I mean, let's work going backwards rather than from the very end. Okay. Recently, you started looking at rebranding the podcast. I'm currently wearing our brand and our merch, but apparently we're going to change this girl in the middle.
Mel:
[38:03] So I love, I love the current podcast logo, but the feedback is, and a lot of people do, you know, we've got merch. If you go to thegreatbirthrebellion.com, you'll see all the merch from the podcast. And that's one way you can support the podcast if you want to grab our merch. But what I've realized is that the more we're making, so we're making the podcast. We've got a few products online, which I'll talk about later, but I'm halfway through writing a book called A Guide to Great Pregnancy, and there's going to be a series of books. It's next. Oh, no, no. This is part of the story. It's part of the story. So I wanted somebody to make an image. I've hired an illustrator to make an image for the front of the book, but I thought, I want to choose some brand colors and have the book match the brand colors of the podcasts and of social media and of my website. And I realized, Dan, like we have been hustling so hard at just building
Mel:
[39:02] The business that all of our branding is just a little bit hickety-pickety. It's all over the place. There's not really any cohesion. And I thought that with the book, this was an opportunity to rebrand and make the whole like images, the images, the colors, everything really cohesive. That's like business 101, actually. We've just been running ahead and some of the basic stuff been left behind. Dan wears it often, but the problem is, and this was part of the reason, what do you think, Dan?
Dan:
[39:37] Well, people say that it looks slightly pornographic. They do. Because the girl's got a leg spread with her hands down there, meant to be kind of catching a baby. And then there's light coming out and she's got flowers instead of pubes. Yeah. But she's very naked.
Mel:
[39:51] She's completely naked.
Dan:
[39:52] And I have been told that I can't wear this to church. Yeah.
Mel:
[39:55] Sometimes you get stressed and like, You can't wear that to church. So I thought, okay, surely if we are cautious about where we wear the brand, then other people, and other people have told me, they're like, I love the podcast, but I just can't, I can't buy and wear the merch because it's a bit much. Even some people are like, we can't even let our kids see it.
Dan:
[40:17] Some people said they wouldn't even share it because of the logo.
Mel:
[40:20] Yeah. So we thought we still need a really hard-hitting rebellious image, but it's got to be a little bit more obscure. And so we're working, I'm working with the same illustrator who did the original one, but we're making it a little bit more wearable, I suppose. And he's also going to do the cover for the book. And anyway, so that's the plan. So you can still buy the old merch. It's still on the website, thegreatbirthrebellion.com, because there's lots of people who are really sad about it. They're like, no, that brand is iconic. So I would suggest buying up all the merch. And then the next reprint will be the new podcast brand. And then hopefully for those of you who've been holding out and not being able to buy the merch because it's a bit risque, maybe then you'll be able to buy it. So look out for that.
Dan:
[41:14] You talked about the book and the branding of the book. Where is that up to? Because you've been working on that quite a lot lately.
Mel:
[41:19] I know. Every spare minute Dan sends me away to go and write.
Dan:
[41:22] Just disappear and then you come back out later. You're like, oh, I did this. I'm like, I don't know, there's like 50,000 words or something you've written.
Mel:
[41:28] Maybe more. 55,000 words. So it's going to be called A Guide to a Great Pregnancy. And then it's going to be part of a series. So Guide to a Great Pregnancy and then Guide to a Great Birth Postpartum. One thing that bothered me about pregnancy books is that they always combine pregnancy and birth. And then there's like a postpartum book afterwards. I'm doing it differently because I think it should be just pregnancy and a little bit of birth obviously to like lead into the next book and then it'll be a book on guide to a great birth and postpartum there's also a fiction book in the mix but that is like just a little side passion project of mine and I'm also writing something for midwives about physiological birth I've already got some titles in my mind about that and it's a reflection on the 18 years of births that I've been at it's kind of like birth stories I've from my perspective but then using those stories to comment about birth physiology and how to work as a physiological midwife these are all projects that are like years in the making they will be but this is all ticking away in the background yeah yeah okay and you
Dan:
[42:35] Started that just after the convergence which the convergence takes a lot of time the convergence and definitely the convergence is everyone's highlight of the year yes definitely ours.
Mel:
[42:43] Oh my gosh i love it you love It's the best.
Dan:
[42:47] So this year it was at the ICC, which is the International Convention Centre here in Sydney, which is probably the biggest venue that exists in Sydney. We didn't take the biggest room. We just took a smaller room. Yeah. But we still had over 500 midwives come and we had a whole bunch of people who
Dan:
[43:02] weren't midwives come this year as well.
Mel:
[43:04] Yeah. So 580 this year. So the first, this is the second year we've run the Convergence of Rebellious Midwives. It's our only live event that we have once a year. And the first year we ran it, there was 375 people,
Dan:
[43:21] Which was- The room was so full. It was packed. There was not a room big enough for that many people.
Mel:
[43:26] Yeah, yeah. It was packed. That was fully, fully, we sold out pretty much. You couldn't fit another person in that venue. So that's why we had to move because we knew we were onto a good thing. And so the convergence of rebellious midwives, it's for anyone. Thank you. We make it as a nurturing space for midwives, but that means that anyone who comes gets nurtured and loved. And when I built the Convergence, every single decision I made, I didn't ask myself like, oh my gosh, how much is it going to cost? You know, I thought, how can I make sure Des, like, we know she did not.
Dan:
[44:05] It cost a fortune. It cost a fortune.
Mel:
[44:07] I think last year's Convergence, we paid, like it was $400,000 that we paid to have it, to even run it full stop. That was the outgoing cost. So it's a massive financial investment from us. And we every year kind of go, oh my gosh, like this has to go well. So it's massive. It's high stakes. And this year already, I've got a stat here, 340 people have already signed up for Convergence 2026. So tickets are on sale, melaniethemidwife.com.
Dan:
[44:41] In Melbourne. We're going to Melbourne.
Mel:
[44:43] We're going to Melbourne. The last two were in Sydney and we thought, well, the Melbourne midwives, let's give them a burl. But this year we had acupuncturists, doulas, just fans. There were women who just loved the podcast and loved my work and just came to the Convergence. There was... Counselors, psychotherapists, a lot of the, how many there were?
Dan:
[45:05] People from Belgium that came.
Mel:
[45:07] Oh, Czech Republic. Czech Republic. Canada, the US from all over the world came to the convergence of rebellious midwives. And 2026 is an amazing lineup. We've got Betty Ann Davis from Canada, from the US. Is she in Canada? She's Canadian. Canada. Andrew Bissett, Sarah Buckley. We've got the team from the top end in Arnhem Land, the Jacomir team coming again.
Dan:
[45:31] They are amazing.
Mel:
[45:32] They were so good the first year. I'll be speaking. Athena Hammond. Everyone always requests Athena come back, so we've got her back again. She's insanely good. Who have I missed? Oh, we've got Rebecca. She's going to talk to us all about the microbiome for pregnancy and birth. Kelly, who wrote the midwife crisis. The Midwife Crisis book. I was just looking for it on my shelf. She's coming. Oh, my gosh. Who? There's more people. Hannah Dallin. She's on the fence because she's got long service leave, but I'm seeing her on Friday. I'm going to lock her in.
Dan:
[46:08] Just rope her in.
Mel:
[46:09] Rope her in.
Dan:
[46:10] Can't do it without her. For sure. She's amazing.
Mel:
[46:12] There's somebody I'm missing. Oh, Kirsten Small is coming again. I'm thinking down the list. Anyway, gosh, go to MelanieTheMidwife.com. You are welcome to come to The Convergence. I build that whole thing to when you leave, you feel better than when you came. That's the whole intention. It's a cup-filling exercise.
Dan:
[46:36] Can I drop a hint too? There's going to be a morning with Mel on the Friday morning.
Mel:
[46:42] You heard it here first.
Dan:
[46:43] And then an afternoon with Athena as well in the afternoon.
Mel:
[46:46] That's Friday 31st. If you want to
Dan:
[46:47] Come and just hang out and ask questions and learn from Mel, Friday morning and then in the afternoon it's all about Athena who's doing all the magical things that she does.
Mel:
[46:58] She's magical. So it's running July 31st, 2026 to the 2nd of August, 2026 in Melbourne, Australia. And yes, that Friday is Morning with Mel, Afternoon with Athena. We have not announced that yet. You can't even buy tickets to that yet. But you heard it here first.
Dan:
[47:14] I'll see if I get a page up.
Mel:
[47:15] Oh, no. There's only 200 tickets to that. And the convergence, you know, that was born because we have an online assembly of rebellious midwives. And we were meeting, we meet online at least three times a month, the assembly of rebellious midwives. You can join if you're a midwife.
Dan:
[47:32] It was the very first online call that you did with them. I know. You're like, what do you guys want? What can we do in this assembly thing? And they're like, our conference.
Mel:
[47:39] We want to get together live.
Dan:
[47:40] And I was in the background going, yes, I've been telling them to do it for ages.
Mel:
[47:43] Just like he was pressuring me to do a video podcast, he's like, you have to run a conference. And the reason he said that is every time I went to conferences, I would come back exhausted and angry. And he's like, you've got to run something where midwives and the people who come do not leave exhausted and angry. That is my inspiration every time I plan a convergence. How can they leave inspired, cup filled, happy, relaxed, and not angry and exhausted? So at the Convergence, you actually leave invigorated. That's the idea. As do I.
Dan:
[48:18] People don't want to end. They just keep going.
Mel:
[48:20] I feel like it's school camp. I feel like school camp's ending and we all have to go home and I never want to get on the bus. No, I don't want to go home. And we run the whole thing. And even for us, it is like a holiday. It's just so good. Anyway, that's where the Convergence came from is that the Assembly midwives were all that we want to get together. In person. So that's what we did. You can join the assembly if you're a midwife. Again, melaniethemidwife.com's got all the information.
Dan:
[48:49] Anywhere around the world. Come and join us.
Mel:
[48:51] Yes. Oh, so cool. Look, I think that's all they need to know about business for now, but what's happening in life, Dan?
Dan:
[48:59] Happening in life?
Mel:
[49:00] Work out for us because we're married. You know, all this stuff they see, everything that you see on Instagram, on the podcast, everything that's our work that's a little part of our life that but that's our work that's not us What's us? What's us?
Dan:
[49:16] Us is family, church, goats, farming.
Mel:
[49:20] Oh, farming. Yeah.
Dan:
[49:21] We've got five baby goats just were born a couple of weeks ago. They're awesome. Kids are great. We tried out school for the first time this year.
Mel:
[49:30] It didn't go well. Nobody.
Dan:
[49:32] Well, I mean.
Mel:
[49:33] We had been previously homeschooling and then we thought, Maybe they'd like to try school because 12 and 8 is how old they are. And then what happened then? What happened? Tell them what happened. You tell the story. I interrupted.
Dan:
[49:47] One of our children, the youngest one, said that she was keen to give school a go. And so we decided that we'd force the old one to also try it out. He did not want to go at all. He wanted to hang out with his mates.
Mel:
[49:57] No, that's not what he said. He said, I said, I want to send you to school this term just to try it out. You don't have to stay if you don't like it. He said, I don't really want to go, but I will try it. He didn't, we didn't force him. We just suggested it and he was willing to try it. So there was always, always up in the air.
Dan:
[50:15] But he didn't like it. So he left after one term.
Mel:
[50:17] We didn't like it either.
Dan:
[50:18] No, not overly. And then our younger one lasted another term and then she also got it. I think it was fun and sparkly when she first joined because she had all of her friends that were there. But then it quickly wore into being in a classroom all the time and not getting a lot of time to go and play and do stuff that she liked doing. So she also chose to come back home. We now do distance ed, which is way easier for us. I don't have to plan any of the curriculum now. Someone else does all the online course teaching and I just get to supervise that. And then we go and enjoy life with all the other homeschool people that we connect with.
Mel:
[50:54] And this is what people ask me a lot of the time. I'm like, how are you guys working and homeschooling? And we have, yeah, we live on a miniature farm with goats and chickens and all this. How do we do it? We've built our lives around this, haven't we? Yeah.
Dan:
[51:08] We generally share a lot of stuff. Yeah. I'll do a lot of the homeschooling type things in the morning with the kids while you work. And then afterwards we'll swap around. I'll do work. She'll do other stuff. Yeah.
Mel:
[51:18] We've got pretty clearly defined family roles, don't we? And good support. Yeah, and good support.
Dan:
[51:24] Literally, your mum is just in the room over there. She is.
Mel:
[51:26] That's what we're recording right now. My mum is here with the kids because it's Wednesday, which is her day, that she comes and hangs out with the kids. But we do. We homeschool. We are very involved in our local church and local community, like a lot in the community. We do a lot, you know, when we go into town. You can't walk down there.
Dan:
[51:46] Everyone knows you.
Mel:
[51:47] You can't walk down the street without being stopped by a million people. But yeah, we have a very big personal life that you guys will not ever see except for this moment. So we've created a really clear line behind. This is the work that we do. This is our mission to the world is the work we do through the Great Birth Rebellion and through Melanie the Midwife and with the company that we run. And then there's this whole personal life that I do not put on Instagram or
Mel:
[52:14] social media that you will hear only snippets of otherwise. So if you're listening to this, this is as much as you're going to get.
Dan:
[52:23] Right.
Mel:
[52:24] Amazing. Look, that has been this wrap up for 2025 on the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. I sincerely hope that I don't get reported for whatever I just said about episode 146.
Dan:
[52:36] It's all right. It's taken down now. It won't matter.
Mel:
[52:38] No, I know. But, you know, I feel like really people are out to get me because this Great Birth Rebellion podcast is massively impactful. Women are standing up and defending themselves in pregnancy, birth and postpartum. And the system does not like that. So I'm here. I'm here for it. I may go completely gray in 2026. That's all right. Who knows? I'm here for it. Honestly, we believe in this. Dan believes in this. That's why he's here. He was running his own business up until about a year and a half ago. And I said to him, we've got to work full time on the Great Birth Rebellion. And he's like, I agree. This work, this work, the Great Birth Rebellion, Mellie and the Midwife work feels more meaningful than anything else I could do in my life. Obviously other than parent and be a great husband.
Dan:
[53:24] But he's just- It was definitely more meaningful than the business I was running. Correct. Helping kids do a better in an HSC exam is not that big a thing compared to changing the way that women experience birth and the way that that transforms women for the better and families for the better. It's amazing.
Mel:
[53:41] Yeah. Okay. Thank you for this year on the Great Birth Rebellion podcast. We will be back with you in 2026, bigger and better than ever. We will see you next year. To get access to the resources for each podcast episode, join the mailing list at melaniethemidwife.com and to support the work of this podcast, wear the rebellion in the form of clothing and other merch at thegreatbirthrebellion.com. Follow me, Mel, @MelanietheMidwife on socials and the show @TheGreatBirthRebellion. All the details are in the show notes.
This transcript was produced by ai technology and may contain errors.
©2025 Melanie The Midwife
